bruce7711/kiwi99's allegations of fraud, Super thread

[Kiwi99]

I learned about a soldier yesterday from a Regiment I am very familiar with who recently got his OT.  I found it interesting because this soldier was apparently so broken for the last 5+  years that he could not even lift a broom to assist in clean up at the end of the day.  He had also been awarded a large sum from VA for 'wounds' he suffered in Afghanistan.  I don't care what people may say, i was there when this soldier suffered his apparent wounds and I know for a fact that they did not happen.  Regardless, like I said, so broken he couldn't lift a broom...but still did other activities outside the CF that are both extremely physical and demanding on the body.

Now, I know a lot of people will say "report him' etc.  Sure, but I am not an expert in this field.  Ask anyone who knows him and they will give you the same response as me. 

Is there anyone checking for benefit fraud on soldiers? Has it even been considered?  I do not ask out of spite or frustration, but I think many of us have seen an obvious case or two of people taking advantage of the system and to be honest, it's starting to piss us lot of us off.

In my opinion I think it may benefit the CF to look into this area.  It's too easy for a soldier to receive a payout, but do they actually warrant it?  Like I said, it's not out of spite, but out of integrity and honor, and the fact that some people abuse those two key elements.

Thanks

 

[PuckChaser]

You would figure VAC takes so long to approve benefits that they are checking for these kinds of fraud.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Was there a CF98 filled out at the time of the incident?

dileas

tess

 

[Cdnleaf]

Great question / something for VAC to consider similar to private insurance companies employing investigators.  With respect to the above individual, it could fall into a Code Of Service Discipline Offence.  Recently met someone on sick leave with 'PTSD' though they were not too sick to work part time at a Big Box Store - paid, not part of the RTW program. :

 

[PMedMoe]

Recently met someone on sick leave with 'PTSD' though they were not too sick to work part time at a Big Box Store - paid, not part of the RTW program. :

Sounds like stuff I heard about after the Swiss Air crash.

 

[Wookilar]

When it comes to the payout, the CF has very little to do with it. All we do (as on organization) is allow VAC to photocopy the members' med docs. That's where the CF's involvement ends.

Should VAC have someone investigating possible fraud? Well, that really is the VAC Case Managers' job and is one of the reasons that the bloody process takes so flippin long. I've know a few pers that have been denied pensions (both old and new) due to not enough substantiation that any injury happened (in service or not).

I for one do not think it's a good idea to have a whole separate arm of investigators out there looking for possible fraud. VAC has a hard time keeping my birthday and home address straight, any "investigator" they hire would just be another public servant looking for performance bonuses (which they would get by "proving" fraud existed).

I think all that has to happens is that the medical types involved do their jobs properly. Supervisors in the CF have their part to play as well. Instead of blindly passing on paperwork, actually look into things a bit. A few questions are all that is needed. It involves no invasion of privacy as it is the supervisors job to ensure that all paperwork submitted is factual and completed properly. CF98's go directly through the Chain, they cannot should not go around it.

Wook

 

[ltmaverick25]

Given how slow VAC is to respond to legitimate claims by veterans I would be weary of trying to cue them onto fraud.  As dispicable as the fradulent members are, I am prepared to accept a certain amount of it if it means we can get much needed benefits into the hands of deserving veterans faster.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The trick to preventing this from happening is making sure supervisors do all they can to get rid of these types ... aka by following the proper administrative procedure to get rid of these guys... a big problem with many units within the military is they tend to take their waste and push it to the side.... while this isn't necessarily a bad thing short term the members never really get dealt with accordingly.

Give you an example....

so and so gets put on C&P because he can't do his job properly... he is removed from tour and RTU

he gets to the unit and he is given more retraining, given easy taskings and generally not placed in positions where he is given enough rope to hang himself with...

said member then ends up back in the same position he originally was in only to mess it up all over again and get kicked off a second tour.  As he wasn't dealt with accordingly the first time aka placed on C&P and the monitored properly he starts back at square one and has to redo the process all over again. 

this is an endless cycle he gets put on C&P because he was junk but while he is on C&P he is not given any actual tasking allowing him to mess up because well he is bad at his job... but he has to have documented proof during his C&P of how bad he is for him to get the boot... this is reality and until we start getting better and following through with properly administering our punishment bottom feeders will continue to survive and prosper.

 

[dogger1936]

If he even attempted to get money his "wounds" as you say either happened OR we have a larger problem. If you say the wounds DIDNT happen someone in your section platoon etc in a supervisor role filled out the CF 98. Is it possiable you didnt see the injury? If not I think it's time to find the fraudlent Mcpl and above and push for an investigation.

 

[Navalsnpr]

Sounds like you have an Ethical dilemma...

http://www.dep-ped.forces.gc.ca/

 

[captloadie]

The trick to preventing this from happening is making sure supervisors do all they can to get rid of these types ... aka by following the proper administrative procedure to get rid of these guys... a big problem with many units within the military is they tend to take their waste and push it to the side.... while this isn't necessarily a bad thing short term the members never really get dealt with accordingly.

Give you an example....

so and so gets put on C&P because he can't do his job properly... he is removed from tour and RTU

he gets to the unit and he is given more retraining, given easy taskings and generally not placed in positions where he is given enough rope to hang himself with...

said member then ends up back in the same position he originally was in only to mess it up all over again and get kicked off a second tour.  As he wasn't dealt with accordingly the first time aka placed on C&P and the monitored properly he starts back at square one and has to redo the process all over again. 

this is an endless cycle he gets put on C&P because he was junk but while he is on C&P he is not given any actual tasking allowing him to mess up because well he is bad at his job... but he has to have documented proof during his C&P of how bad he is for him to get the boot... this is reality and until we start getting better and following through with properly administering our punishment bottom feeders will continue to survive and prosper.

If cases are happening as per your example, someone in the CoC isn't doing their job correctly. You cannot be placed on C&P twice for the same issue without having an automatic AR done by DGMC. So either the CoC is protecting the individual by ensuring that each C&P is written different enough to ensure the AR isn't triggered, or they aren't correctly writing the C&P to ensure an AR is triggered.

As for the fraud issue, it probably happens more often then we know. That being said, I think we have to be careful in when using cases like in the original post as an example. PTSD will effect everyone differently. Maybe he can work as hard all day long, but something as simple as putting on the uniform triggers symptoms. Maybe it is the smell of gun oil, or seeing the same people as when he was over there. Maybe the individual will never be able to return to work and need to be released. But we shouldn't automatically call faker, as only the individual, and maybe some trained professionals know for sure.

 

[Stoker]

At work its comes up every once and a while about so and so getting a pension or multiple pensions for some thing or another and 90% of the time they think their faking it or somehow doesn't deserve it and 90% of that is jealousy. To get a pension there is a process that everyone must go through, we all know that they just don't give money away. With the shear amount of mbrs receiving pensions there will be people who either fake it or exaggerate the condition that's exactly the same in civy street. How do we as a non medical person know that guy is faking it unless he braggs about it?, we may suspect but how do we really know? Perhaps there are details we don't know about and really its non of our business. I think as supervisors for every CF 98 filled out we make it sure its complete as possible and make sure its properly actioned, what goes on between a mbr and VAC is none of my business and shouldn't be anyone elses.

 

[Kiwi99]

Good day everyone,

Here is a link to an article with Cpl Andy Social.

Great work Cpl Social

http://www.dailybulletin.ca/article/20110317/KIMBERLEY0101/303179999/-1/kimberley/soldier-on

Andrew

Wounded?  Not that I recall.

 

[Jimmy_D]

Not all wounds are seen to bephysical wounds.

edit: Some personal can cover up their injuries quite well, or have had surgury to fix wounds and/or to make their injuries not so noticable to the average person.

 

[Strike]

Wounded?  Not that I recall.

If you're going to accuse someone of fraud do it on the thread you started last year, not in this one.

 

[Teeps74]

Wounded?  Not that I recall.

http://www.citytv.com/edmonton/show/news/article/167400?showuid=78194

A news article that still works seems to say otherwise.

 

[Kiwi99]

Yeah, well being there may not be the same as a news article, but I imagine it's just as good.

 

[Strike]

There's a place for this:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/99508/post-1019978.html#msg1019978

Move it there or I'll get the mods involved.  This thread is not for debating the merits of people's injuries.

 

[Teeps74]

*Gonna bow out on Strike's advice and better judgement.