Best Vessel For A New Stoker To Serve On?

[TRYHARD2001]

Hey all, I've just begun my Stoker QL3 Course and they are already asking which type of vessel we would prefer to work on. As I understand it, once you are slotted into a certain class of ship, it can be a very long and painstaking process to learn on an entirely different platform and is not really in your best interests careerwise. Therefore, my question to you more experienced sailors is which class do you fell would be the best spot for a young stoker just starting out?

I was leaning towards the 280's, but the whole world keeps saying they're a dying breed...

 

[Occam]

There are lots of stokers here to correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine a huge difference between the CPFs and the 280s.

CPFs have a PDE cruise engine and a couple of GTs for the mains.  280s have two GTs for cruise and a different set of two for mains.
CPFs have a pretty snazzy IMCS, I'm not sure what the current 280's have (they had the old Bailey meters when I was posted to a 280).
The auxiliary machinery is probably pretty much the same.

Now if you want night and day, compare a CPF to an AOR engineering space....  ;D

 

[Stoker]

Hey all, I've just begun my Stoker QL3 Course and they are already asking which type of vessel we would prefer to work on. As I understand it, once you are slotted into a certain class of ship, it can be a very long and painstaking process to learn on an entirely different platform and is not really in your best interests careerwise. Therefore, my question to you more experienced sailors is which class do you fell would be the best spot for a young stoker just starting out?

I was leaning towards the 280's, but the whole world keeps saying they're a dying breed...

Opinions vary, stokers are usually 280 ladies, tanker wankers, CPF guys or subs. I recommend any ship that goes to sea will suffice there young feller. Once posted get that package signed off!

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Listen to the Chief. First, its always good advice. Second, I have yet to meet a Chief that steered a young seaman wrong (though, they are not above trying to befuddle young officers from time to time ).

 

[TRYHARD2001]

Fair enough, folks. I decided I'll ask for the CPF's if only cuz there're so many more of them and it looks like they're the future of the Navy for the time being. However, I'lll obviously go wherever I'm sent. I'm just praying for the West Coast now...

 

[Pat in Halifax]

I wasn't going to chime in on this as indeed some very sound responses have already been tabled....but...Glad you made a decision and without sounding unbiased, your best bet is likely Halifax Class (CPF was the acronym for the development project-get out of the habit of using it to describe the frigates-Yes, I know it is still used in a lot of documentation and by senior personnel). Halifax class will be around for another 15+ years whereas I suspect (my opinion only) that IRO, ATH and ALG's days are numbered. In all likelihood, from an engineering standpoint, the next generation of "blue water" vessels (SCSC?) though possibly some sort of hybrid, will likely run the venerable GE LM 2500 GT as primary propulsion.
The Control system between Iroquois and Halifax is the same but with different peripherals (equipment), it is not the same. Iroquois class technology though updated during TRUMP is 1960s with Halifax Class being late 70's/early 80s. There was most definitely quite the gap in there.
Some will say a diesel is a diesel is a diesel but for those on these forums with intimate knowledge of MWMs, Pielsticks and Allisons, I think you will agree that each has it's own separate bag of problems. (Not even mentioning the Paxman Valentas on VIC class!) I encourage you to however garner whatever experience you can-I never did that and it is too late for me. I went straight from an IRE (steamer GATINEAU) to a frigate (TORONTO) in 1998 and that was quite the culture shock but I had to ask myself once I requalled my Cert 3 "Why did I wait so long??" Deep down, to all of us, though change is good, too much is bad - You find that line and you are laughing. In all honesty, if I were starting out now, I would go Halifax class and than jump all over the AOPS (if and when....).
Anything else you have, don't be shy to ask and keep us updated on how things go.

 

[TRYHARD2001]

Strictly out of curiosity, what exactly are you referring to by AOPS, Pat? I've never heard that term bandied about in my admittedly short time in the Navy and I'm trying to soak it all up like the proverbial sponge. Also, what is the likelihood of the reg force getting our hands on some of the MCDV's or even the Orcas for local Pacific and Atlantic duties? I take it you have quite a depth of knowledge on the stoker trade and the Canadian Navy as a whole so I might as well pick your brain while I have your attention.

Oh, and to think I would be in Wainwright right now if I hadn't OT'd, just beginning a month long dismounted winter ex...  :'(

 

[Occam]

Strictly out of curiosity, what exactly are you referring to by AOPS, Pat? I've never heard that term bandied about in my admittedly short time in the Navy and I'm trying to soak it all up like the proverbial sponge. Also, what is the likelihood of the reg force getting our hands on some of the MCDV's or even the Orcas for local Pacific and Atlantic duties? I take it you have quite a depth of knowledge on the stoker trade and the Canadian Navy as a whole so I might as well pick your brain while I have your attention.

Oh, and to think I would be in Wainwright right now if I hadn't OT'd, just beginning a month long dismounted winter ex...  :'(

AOPS = Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship

Unless something has changed, there are no stokers on MCDVs.  There are only two Reg F positions, a PO2 E Tech and a MS NE Tech.  The Z-drives are electrically driven (600 Volts DC), so you won't find propulsion diesels on them, just diesels for electrical generation - which is right up the Reserve D Mech's alley.  I've no exposure to the Orcas, but I can't see them being much different.

 

[Stoker]

Strictly out of curiosity, what exactly are you referring to by AOPS, Pat? I've never heard that term bandied about in my admittedly short time in the Navy and I'm trying to soak it all up like the proverbial sponge. Also, what is the likelihood of the reg force getting our hands on some of the MCDV's or even the Orcas for local Pacific and Atlantic duties? I take it you have quite a depth of knowledge on the stoker trade and the Canadian Navy as a whole so I might as well pick your brain while I have your attention.

Oh, and to think I would be in Wainwright right now if I hadn't OT'd, just beginning a month long dismounted winter ex...  :'(

Cert 2's will begin training toward their EOOW certification this summer. Regular force can already get their tickets on the Orcas.

 

[Stoker]

AOPS = Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship

Unless something has changed, there are no stokers on MCDVs.  There are only two Reg F positions, a PO2 E Tech and a MS NE Tech.  The Z-drives are electrically driven (600 Volts DC), so you won't find propulsion diesels on them, just diesels for electrical generation - which is right up the Reserve D Mech's alley.  I've no exposure to the Orcas, but I can't see them being much different.

There are quite a few ex regular force stokers on MCDV's now. Regular force stokers are to begin training this summer on MCDV's to reduce the manning problems.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Strictly out of curiosity, what exactly are you referring to by AOPS, Pat? I've never heard that term bandied about in my admittedly short time in the Navy and I'm trying to soak it all up like the proverbial sponge. Also, what is the likelihood of the reg force getting our hands on some of the MCDV's or even the Orcas for local Pacific and Atlantic duties? I take it you have quite a depth of knowledge on the stoker trade and the Canadian Navy as a whole so I might as well pick your brain while I have your attention.

Oh, and to think I would be in Wainwright right now if I hadn't OT'd, just beginning a month long dismounted winter ex...  :'(

I think all your queries seem to be answered. Must say though that the RegF Cert 2 thing on MCDVs is not confirmed (Though it makes sense to me). I just had another look at the CM brief and no mention of it. I know the CM and will ask and if I hear anything OFFICIAL and PERMISSIBLE TO POST PUBLICLY, I will do so. I know at our last OAG (Occupational Analysis Group) Mtg, it was discussed about swapping RegF and Res freely back and forth between KIN/HAL/IRO/PRO classes. It was discussed very quickly and nothing more. I think the training gap and the methodology of training between MESO and MAR ENG is still a little too broad to do this. Why training has never been streamlined a little over the years is beyond me.
I actually have 2 friends who recently took a "demotion" to CPO2 to join the Res just to get back to sea as a stoker. As my byline says(in my profile), once we have done the Chief ERA thing (Halifax Feb 06-May 08), our 'stoker' days are over. I wont lie-I sit here in my cubicle in Ottawa contemplating this exact prospect EVERY single day!

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Not necessarily a bad idea to at least expose MAR ENG to the MCDVs and the concepts associated with electric drives since that is a likely propulsion type for the AOPS (or anything that operates in ice) and quite possibly for use in the SCSC when they come on line. After all, the Brits Type 45 destroyers are electric motor drives, so will their future aircraft carriers, even though the generators are a combination of diesel and gas turbines. Even the Americans were going all electric propulsion on their now cancelled Zumwalt class destroyers.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

EXCELLENT point(s). I might actually attempt to re-ignite this discussion within the trade.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

After a flurry of phone calls and emails, I can categorically say (re RegF Stokers going to MCDVs) ...sorry but not at liberty to say more... a 'staff check' is ongoing with RegF units for a 'potential' for augmentation of MCDV crews for this coming summer ONLY.
More to follow on this one I am sure.
Oldgateboatdriver-Interestingly enough, the CM shares exactly, your assessment of the 'situation'.

 

[TRYHARD2001]

Based on what I've seen on Truth, Duty, Valour and what I heard from the Reserves, those MCDV's look like pretty impressive, highly maneuvrable (SP?) ships. I guess I wouldn't be put on one in the summer if I haven't done my  NETP , though :'(

 

[Occam]

Based on what I've seen on Truth, Duty, Valour and what I heard from the Reserves, those MCDV's look like pretty impressive, highly maneuvrable (SP?) ships. I guess I wouldn't be put on one in the summer if I haven't done my  NETP , though :'(

Pretty maneuverable at 15 knots top speed, that is.  ;D

And no, it's unlikely you'd see one unless you have NETP out of the way.

 

[Stoker]

Looks like five Cert 2's will be receiving training for their MCDV Cert 3"s, this will happen on both coasts to provide a surge capabilitythis summer. As it stands only Cert 3's are needed. Blended crews for all trades will happen very soon. The delta packages for the Cert 2's are being finalized and numbers are being identified. I can see some potential problems, however nothing that can't be overcome.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Careful with the terminology - A "Cert 3" does NOT (nor will it likely ever) exist on KIN class. There are 4 Cert 3s in the current Fleet:
A - PRO class;
D-IRO class;
E-HAL class; and
V-VIC class

 

[Stoker]

Careful with the terminology - A "Cert 3" does NOT (nor will it likely ever) exist on KIN class. There are 4 Cert 3s in the current Fleet:
A - PRO class;
D-IRO class;
E-HAL class; and
V-VIC class

That may be so, however that's what they are calling it. For the reserves its a Cert "B", for the regs I imagine it would be called a 3 something.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

It may be semantics, but trust me, it is NOT Cert 3 equivalent (maybe in name only as EOOW). The B ticket, if there is any equivalency, would tie in with a Cert 2. There is no requirement for a Cert 3 equivalent on KIN class. This is not meant as any form of criticism but the dynamics of the Cert 3 (IAW NEM, minimum rank of PO2) are well beyond an MCCO (Cert 2).
I just left the position as Cert 3 Trg Coord at CFNES so trust me please; I am not blowing sand up your a**.