Avro Arrow RL-206

[Slim]

Fri, March 25, 2005


THE WAY WE WERE column



By Mike Filey, Toronto Sun

IT WAS at precisely 9:52 a.m. on this day in 1958 that the Avro Arrow roared off the tarmac at Malton Airport (now Pearson International). Developed in response to rising concerns that the Russians might attack over the North Pole, the revolutionary twin-jet interceptor was the culmination of five years of research and development by hundreds of engineers and craftsmen at both the Avro Canada factory adjacent to the airport and at dozens of plants across Canada.

While the first Arrow had been introduced to a proud audience several months earlier, much work still had to be done and it wasn't until this day 47 years ago that the late Jan Zurakowski got Arrow RL-201 airborne.

The first flight was just 35 minutes in length, and the aircraft performed superbly.

In fact, Zurakowski had only one complaint -- the cockpit lacked a clock.

It seemed as if the project was well and truly launched.

There was no question that Canada's new Arrow led the pack.

But somewhere along the way the project was derailed and in less than two years this remarkable Canadian success story had been terminated.


http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2005/03/25/972065-sun.html

 

[TCBF]

Thus endeth the lesson.

My father-in-law was an RCAF LAC at Malton, securing and shipping documents related to the project.

Tom

 

[Freddy Chef]

Probably a pipe dream here, but much could be learned about recycling from the USAF:

1) After WWII, USAF develop a revolutionary aircraft, the B-49 Flying Wing.
2) Aircraft was too complicated, program was cancelled, prototypes were destroyed in political hissy-fit.
3) Decades later, when technology caught up, and the USAF in need of a new bomber, USAF recycle B-49 blueprints to develop the B-2 Spirit.

On our side of the boarder:

1) After WWII, RCAF develop a revolutionary aircraft, the CF-105 AVRO Arrow.
2) Aircraft was too complicated, program was cancelled, prototypes were destroyed in political hissy-fit.
3) Decades later, when technology caught up, and the CF in need of a new fighter to replace the CF-18......

 

[JBP]

Probably a pipe dream here, but much could be learned about recycling from the USAF:

1) After WWII, USAF develop a revolutionary aircraft, the B-49 Flying Wing.
2) Aircraft was too complicated, program was cancelled, prototypes were destroyed in political hissy-fit.
3) Decades later, when technology caught up, and the USAF in need of a new bomber, USAF recycle B-49 blueprints to develop the B-2 Spirit.

On our side of the boarder:

1) After WWII, RCAF develop a revolutionary aircraft, the CF-105 AVRO Arrow.
2) Aircraft was too complicated, program was cancelled, prototypes were destroyed in political hissy-fit.
3) Decades later, when technology caught up, and the CF in need of a new fighter to replace the CF-18......

Yeah, it's a pipedream, but to think, the AVRO Arrow was the first fighter sized aircraft to have:

Flight control computer (Autopilot)
Internal undercarriage bombay doors
Onboard radar guided missles (Not too sure about it being 1st, but close if not!)
"Almond" canopy (Pain in the ass anyway...)

That's to name a few...

Not to mention the unparalleled technological spin-offs, they had to create new computers, software, metals, fabrication and tooling methods, you name it! It all was top of the line. It was so far ahead of it's time it's rediculous...

I'm hoping one day a flying demonstration model would be built for airshows and the like....

Joe
:'(

 

[Love793]

Who knows, some one is building a scale replica.  Whether or not it ever flys, who's to say.  The amazing thing would be, if someone was to build one that gets Transport Canada approval, that is power by the Oreinda engines (Avro Built) and not the P&W that all the prototypes flew.

 

[Freddy Chef]

[Sorry, Pte (R) Joe, the Arrow had a â ?clamshellâ ? canopy.]

The CF-105 replica, Toronto Aerospace Museum, is supposed to be an aluminum, static museum model, not air-worthy.

http://www.torontoaerospacemuseum.com/home.html

There was also a scale-prop-model from the CF-105 docu-drama-movie, starring Dan Akroyd.


The Arrow used fly-by-wire technology in 1957. The F-16 used fly-by-wire, when its prototype rolled out in 1975 (?) .

The Arrow used an internal weapons bay in 1957. The F/A-22 used an internal weapons bay, when its prototype rolled out in 1997 (?) .


Big fan of the Arrow here; have the Boston Mills picture book of the Arrow, and used to own a plastic model of the CF-105. Ironically, the Arrow has a rectangular box for a fuselage, trapezoid/triangle for it's fin and wings, and a conical cockpit: not a complex design at all! The F/A-22 employs angled, box-like features for stealth. Some tweaking of the Arrow's design might have the same result (I'm also stuck on the rumor of delta-wing-aircraft having a low radar cross section).

My pipe dream suggestion, modernizing the CF-105's blueprints to build a home-grown aircraft to replace the CF-18, was inspired by the similarities I saw in the F/A-22, by the similarities I saw with the B-49/B-2 story, by the simplicity of the CF-105's basic design (cheaper to build?), and by the CF-18's service life ending in 12 years (plenty of development time).

I guess it's the patriotic kid in me that wants to rekindle national pride, absolve the past sins of the Arrow's cancellation, and a second chance for Canadian aerospace to really, really shine. :'(

 

[Slim]

I just saw a CBC thing on the Arrow. Apparently the Arrowspace Museum is putting together a 1:1 scale replica of the thing.

 

[Love793]

On the plus side, a lot of the designers and technicians from that program went on to work at other Aero Space companies.  From their heads came the F-105, F-111, F-4, SR 71, TR-1 (U2), F-22, YF-23, SST Concorde as well as the most of the American manned space vehicles.  Even though Canada's Aircraft Industry suffered greatly, we can take pride in knowing that the greatest Fighter Interceptor ever designed lead to these projects.  In them the memory should live on.  Also, remember there is a strong rumour that 1 Arrow may have escaped....

 

[Sheerin]

There are a lot of individuals out there who go, well, kinda nutso over the CF-105. 

My brother did a documentary back in the late 90s on 2 groups of people who were searching for the scale models that Avro shot into Lake Ontario to test the aerodynamics.  They were nice people, just a little nutso.   

The doc, in case any of you caught it, was called Hunting Arrows, it aired on Roughcuts on CBC newsworld back in April of 2001, it was supposed to have a repeat on Tuesday September 11th, 2001, but it was preempted - for obvious reasons.

 

[Love793]

Discovery was showing a episode of "Sea Hunters" today that featured the search for the Arrow Models.  Pretty good episode, but a little dry.

 

[Sheerin]

Have they ever found the models?  I know with the groups that my brother was following all they (at the time of fliming) found was a booster rocket. 
I wonder what ever happened to those people?
 

 

[Samy]

Hi,

Well i'm a cadet in 845 avro arrow squadron, named after the avro arrow i was wondering if you have any links to some sites that have alot of info about the arrow that's be awesome thanks...I have heard lately that they are going to rebuild the Avro Arrow is it true or just rumours? :skull:

 

[tabernac]

Of the people here who have seen the Arrow movie/documentary, (God knows I have many times) they make note of the fact that there was 1 Arrow was not accounted for, the only bird that had the Iroquois mounted in it(which was able to fly). The pride and patriotism in me wants me to believe that a single Arrow is still out there. (Hey, for all we know it could be in Roswell, NM.)

 

[condor888000]

That would be RL-206 which is supposidly unaccounted for. I say supposidly because it's nose(cockpits forward), wingtips, main landing gear, and one of those Iroquois engines are sitting in the Canada Aviation Museum right here in Ottawa.

 

[aesop081]

For all you " let's bring back the arrow" folks, consider this :

The CF-105 was designed to intercept soviet bombers.  Doing that is quite different from the requirements of dealing with other fighters.  Therfore it was designed for a mission which no longer exists.

The original weapon system intended for the CF-105, an american system, was cancelled forcing Canada to develop an entirely new system costing millions.  One major factor in the project's cancelation, was the rising costs which were threathning all of the military's expenditure plans.  There is no reason why this would be different today.

For those who mentioned the internal bomb bay and the fact that the F-22 raptor has one has well.....whats your point ?  An internal bomb bay is nothing new.......i dont suppose you knew that the F-105 Thundercheif had one in the early 60's did you ?

The greatest loss to canada was in the "brain drain" that followed.  If the CF-105 had come to operational status, it would not have been on top of the game for long.  Its basic design suited the mission for which it was created and nothing else.  The solution to replacing the CF-18 doent lie in the revival of an outdated design incorporating new technology........you can modernise a 1962 pinto all you want..its still a 1962 pinto.

I love the arrow, don't get me wrong, but in the same breath i have great faith in JSF.

One last thing.....Whichever one of you said that 12 years was plenty of time for a developement period should go a read up on how long it took to develop the F-22, RAH-66...even the new civilian A380, and have thme tested and manufactured and placed in service.  If you want to argue that one with me i'm well prepared and i can also demonstrate to you waht happens in a country like canada when we simply want to upgrade an existing aircraft ( CP-140 AIMP).....

 

[Freddy Chef]

The point about the CF-105's internal weapons' bay? It is a concept that has been recycled, with aircraft like the F/A-22 and the F/A-35 JSF, to suit the modern requirement of low radar observe-ability, weapons inclusive. Revolutionary of the CF-105? Not really. The Convair F-102 and F-106 were fighters of the same era that also had internal weapons' bay. Point being, a design concept that is applicable contemporarily and can be recycled.

A souped-up 1959, CF-105 to replace the CF-18? Not really. Reference the comparison of the B-49, and B-2: the B-2 is not a souped-up B-49. The B-2 recycled the basic idea of the B-49, a uni-body lifting surface with internal engines. Yes, the 1959, CF-105 was a high performance, delta winged interceptor, with internal weapons bay. Can a modern, high performance, fighter/attack aircraft be delta winged, have an internal weapons bay, along with low radar observe-ability features? Can that concept of the CF-105 be recycled? I recall Dassault Mirage delta winged fighter aircraft being know for low radar observe-ability. [6th paragraph, http://www.vectorsite.net/avmir2k.html ]

Though the political and economic environment or our nation may not support such a venture, home grown aircraft, the twilight of the CF-18's service life presented a, nostalgic, opportunity. Granted, the time frame for research and development is not feasible for such an aircraft to be serviceable in time. [Corrected I stand.]  It's just the thought of redemption for our aerospace industry. Off-the-shelf technology until then.

 

[JBP]

On the internal weapons bays, also the F-111 Ardvark had internal as well. Nevermind all the bombers that did too like the B-52 Stratofortress and the Russian supersonic bombers like the Tu-26 Backfire.

aesop081 you beat me to it. I was going to explain how the Arrow was designed with 1 mission in mind... Same reason the USN is retiring the F-14's, it was made purely as an interceptor and dogfighter, they are needing a more versatile aircraft. Besides the fact of the F-14's maintenance cost as well and service life (passed alread???). The F-14 also carries the Pheonix long range air to air missle, which cost about as much as a rolls-royce and it carries 4 on a standard loadout!

The Arrow isn't feasable in any way in modern war.

I'd just like to see a flying model built for airshows, and maybe to beat airspeed and altitude records, if that would be possible!

;D

 

[aesop081]

.... the Russian supersonic bombers like the Tu-26 Backfire.

Not to be picky but,

Russina supersonic bombers are:

TU-22 "Blinder"
TU-22M "Backfire"
TU-160 "Blackjack"

 

[Love793]

On the internal weapons bays, also the F-111 Ardvark had internal as well. Nevermind all the bombers that did too like the B-52 Stratofortress and the Russian supersonic bombers like the Tu-26 Backfire.

aesop081 you beat me to it. I was going to explain how the Arrow was designed with 1 mission in mind... Same reason the USN is retiring the F-14's, it was made purely as an interceptor and dogfighter, they are needing a more versatile aircraft. Besides the fact of the F-14's maintenance cost as well and service life (passed alread???). The F-14 also carries the Pheonix long range air to air missle, which cost about as much as a rolls-royce and it carries 4 on a standard loadout!

The Arrow isn't feasable in any way in modern war.

I'd just like to see a flying model built for airshows, and maybe to beat airspeed and altitude records, if that would be possible!

;D

It was planned to replace Arrow, with more modern Arrows, similiar to the French Mirage program.  And yes it was designed primarly to intercept.  This was the threat from the late 40s through to the early 90s.

 

[JBP]

Not to be picky but,

Russina supersonic bombers are:

TU-22 "Blinder"
TU-22M "Backfire"
TU-160 "Blackjack"

:-X

Opps... Thanks for the correction though.

Say, anyone know where the old airport Avro used to use is? Wasn't it connected to Pearson or something like that???

I'm a security guard in civvy world and I just did security in Toronto for an abandoned airfield (looked quite old, like 50's/cold war era) with huge hangers+runway and all. Called "Downview Airport" or some such... CF military base beside it still to this day... Anyone know if that had anything to do with it or no???

Joe