Arty Sim + Gananoque McDonald's Trash Can = Criminal Charges

[The Bread Guy]

In our system, all are presumed innocent until proven guilty.  That said, way to go........  :

A Canadian soldier could face charges under the National Defence Act after an explosive device used to blow up a McDonald’s garbage can in Gananoque, Ont., last month was traced to a military base outside of Barrie.

On Oct. 24, police received a number of 911 calls about an explosion outside a fast food restaurant in downtown Gananoque, the reverberations of which had been heard blocks away.

“Judging by the damage done, it certainly wasn’t something you could buy at a corner store,” said police Chief Kai Liu.

Among the debris, officers found a piece of the explosive with part of a serial number.

They quickly discovered it a was a military training device, and traced it first to CFB Suffield, Alberta, home of Canadian Forces research and development, and then to CFB Borden ....

More in the Globe & Mail here.

 

[pbi]

It was announced on the news yesterday here in Kingston that an individual has been arrested, after a joint investigation by MPs, OPP, and the GPS. I guess there's no accounting for morons. No doubt he will be described as a "...PTSD-crazed Afghanistan veteran..."

Cheers

 

[exgunnertdo]

No doubt he will be described as a "...PTSD-crazed Afghanistan veteran..."

According to the Globe & Mail article, he's a Private that joined in Sept 09, posted to Kingston. Putting all that together, he's not likely to have been to Afghanistan.

I vote for "stupid kid" as the most likely explanation.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

It was announced on the news yesterday here in Kingston that an individual has been arrested, after a joint investigation by MPs, OPP, and the GPS. I guess there's no accounting for morons. No doubt he will be described as a "...PTSD-crazed Afghanistan veteran..."

Cheers

First I've heard about it and I live in Kingston. I find it interesting that it took three weeks for it to hit the news.

At least no one was injured. An artillery Simulator is really a big firecracker and having one go off in in an enclosed space (garbage can) could of resulted in flying debris (glass, metal) that, in turn, could of caused serious injuries.

 

[armyvern]

According to the Globe & Mail article, he's a Private that joined in Sept 09, posted to Kingston. Putting all that together, he's not likely to have been to Afghanistan.

I vote for "stupid kid" as the most likely explanation.

Since when was he posted to Kingston I wonder?? I'm tagging him at a school in Borden by DIN.

 

[Jammer]

Borden for sure.
We're not allowed to use Arty sims  in the Gore Area.

 

[armyvern]

Borden for sure.
We're not allowed to use Arty sims  in the Gore Area.

We're also not allowed to use 'em at McDonalds either, but apparently that didn't stop this ID 10 T. 

The kid is posted to Borden; a candidate at a certain school - according to the DIN; I'm just questionning where the Globe & Mail is getting the "posted to Kingston" bit from.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The kid is posted to Borden; a candidate at a certain school - according to the DIN; I'm just questionning where the Globe & Mail is getting the "posted to Kingston" bit from.

They probably don't have access to DIN  ;D

The version of the G&M article I'm looking at now doesn't mention Kingston - the Kingston Whig-Standard and the official news release from Gananoque police (attached) says "The suspect is a member of the Canadian Forces currently training at Canadian Forces Base Borden".

 

[George Wallace]

OK.  I'm blind.  I just read the G & M article and I missed any and all ref to Kingston.  The Pte (Potvin) was from Borden.  The PAO (Lieutenant Carrie Pluck) is from Borden.  I saw a ref that the Pte could be charged under the NDA for removing an explosive from a training area, but still no ref to Kingston. 

Other than people perhaps in their minds associating CFB (K) as being the closest DND establishment to Gan, I can see no mention of Kingston.


exgunnertdo ?

 

[dogger1936]

How did a student walk away with a arty sim? Sounds like some Mcpl's should be charged as well.

 

[Zoomie]

How did a student walk away with a arty sim?

Expend all ammunition....  Huge orgy of explosions, smoke and blank rounds.  Easy for a few items to get slipped into a pocket.

 

[armyvern]

Expend all ammunition....  Huge orgy of explosions, smoke and blank rounds.  Easy for a few items to get slipped into a pocket.

Yep; that and the additional NDA service offence of making a false Declaration to the RSO when departing the trg area/range.

 

[PuckChaser]

Costs more money to charge a reservist than they'd get back in a fine.

 

[Jammer]

From my perspective:
The D Staff cannot account for all expenditure of brass. they can and should account for all expenditure of smoke and pyro...ie; T flash and Arty sims. If X pyro was issued and X was expended, why was Y overlooked and not accounted for.
Yes to the false declaration, but the D Staff should be held accountable as well. DP-1 students should not be handling pyro whatsoever. Just as a supposition the only school in Borden who would be issued this kind of pyro would be CFSEME.

 

[missing1]

How did a student walk away with a arty sim? Sounds like some Mcpl's should be charged as well.

Why stop at the MCpl, Lets go for the Snr NCO and officer also

 

[chrisf]

So, here's a question then assuming he was a student (And that's an assumption, there's plenty pyro used other then on course. OPFOR taskings are a wonderful time for anyone who enjoys the use of pyro). Would you advocate a hand search of all students following the range? Because that's the only way for 100% accountability in this case... and if he wasn't a student, would you advocate a hand search any time an individual gives a declaration and leaves a range?

There's a point where you have to trust your troops and assume they're not stupid enough to steal an arty sim and jam it in a trash can...

 

[chrisf]

Costs more money to charge a reservist than they'd get back in a fine.

And where does it say he's a reservist? (Although based on his age, it's not an unreasonable assumption)

 

[OldSolduer]

Lets stick with this:

Was a declaration done?  If not, then the CoC of that particular ex should be charged.

If an range dec was done, the individual [glow=red,2,300] LIED [/glow] to his COC.

You cannot hold the CoC responsible for the failings of one individual who wasn't thinking with the big head. If that were the case, the CDS would be getting charged daily.

 

[PuckChaser]

And where does it say he's a reservist? (Although based on his age, it's not an unreasonable assumption)

Just seems wierd that a RegF soldier doing training at Borden would go to Gan. Long trip with not much to do there. I shouldn't have assumed, however. There's a lot of new recruits doing dumb #@$! lately.

 

[rampage800]

I think sometimes we tend to get tied  up in the schematics of Range Declarations and if it was given or if it wasn't, how about the fact that it was theft and what he stole from the CF is basically irrelevant. Range Declarations have their place, I won't argue that but we shouldn't tie ourselves to a paragraph that basically negates the responsibilities of the individual if he doesn't receive it and tie our hands.

My 2 cents.