Armoured Soldier Questions

[hammond]

Excuse me for posting If this topic has been covered previously, although, I have searched an found nothing that could really answer my questions.... or I am to much of a dunce to have seen it  :-[
I just have a couple of questions concerning the MOC of an Armoured Soldier. Through reading the recruiting site I understand that training is approx 26weeks or 6.5 months total : 10 Weeks BMQ, 10 Weeks SQ, 6 Weeks MOC. I am wondering... is after the training outlined by the site, are you now an employable armoured soldier, or is there additional training before you are eligible to be deployed? I was also wondering, knowing that training is never the 26weeks consecutively, on average how long does it take before one is "fully"(deployable) trained? And lastly, just a question concerning postings, does one receive their posting notice after BMQ, SQ, or their MOC? Thank you greatly for your time, as well if this is in the wrong forum and should be moved, please do so. - Hammond

 

[Quag]

I can help you with some of the questions.

1.  You are employed by the CF on the first day of your BMQ and are therefore getting paid.  I think what you are asking is if after your MOC training, will you be eligible for deployment.  In a nutshell, the simple answer is no.  You will have to do "Work up training" as a bare minimum.  Someone else will tell you exactly how long that is now.

2.  Your training could be "almost" consecutive or it could be spaced apart.  It varies from year to year.  Put it this way, I'm expecting Phases 2-4 to take 1 year (Please God).  That's armoured officer training though, as I understand it, armoured soldiers only have one initial course to be MOC qualifed (after SQ).

3.  Usually during your actual trade training (MOC as you call it) is the time you find out which unit you will be posted to.  Be thankful that in the Armour Corps you only have three "choices" of units.  That is, unless you can't speak french, in which case you will be going to either Edmonton or Petawawa.

Hope that helps some what.

Someone else more knowledgable will be by shortly to fill you in with more information.

 

[hammond]

Thanks Quag!

I did screw up that term employable, I was under the impression it meant deployable as well in CF terms, So it appears that once completed the first Driver course, or the course after SQ you are qualified as an armoured soldier and placed at a unit, that if called upon, you are able to deploy. Thanks! Thats what I was wondering. I just need some clarification about approx time it takes to go through all the courses, including waiting for courses would a year be a reasonable length to assume, from Enrollment to Posting? give or take a couple months?

Thanks for the quick Reply Quag, Good luck during your phases! - Hammond

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Hammond,

As an armoured soldier you should be "employable" at your Regiment once you have completed MOC training (which was not necessarily the case with the old QL3).  I left the Regiment two years ago, but at that time we were endevouring to have all of our deploying soldiers dual-qualified on the Coyote (Surv Op or Gunner in addition to their driver qual).  The Regiment ran courses once or twice a year to achieve this.  I'm not sure what the status is now.  For the most part, soldiers had been at the Regiment for at least one year before deploying overseas, but there will always be exceptions.

I'm afraid that I'm out of the loop on course scheduling and wait times.  DP1 takes roughly three months (bit longer if it runs over Christmas).  The time to get from enrollment to Regiment will depend largely on how your courses are scheduled.  In theory, six to eight months would be a reasonable time.  You may have a wait time between graduating recruit school and starting DP1.  Some folks here who have recently gone through would be able to shed more light on this based on their personal experience.

 

[hammond]

Thanks Red_Five,

The dual-qualification sounds very reasonable especially for deployment allowing one to fulfill multiple roles, as well as having 1yr Time in in regiment before deploying. Thanks for shedding some light on length of training. For the Gunner and Surv Op courses, they are ran by the regiment you are posted to? or are they also a course in Gagetown? And just a general question, during the time waiting to goto SQ or Driver course, do you remain at the location of your prior course and complete Garrison tasks? or do you have the time to spend with family? Thanks for the enlightenment! - Hammond

 

[Quag]

You are usually put on PAT platoon (Personnel Awaiting Training) while you are awaiting a course.  You will usually be put on this platoon at the location of your next course.  Once you are in the forces, you have to understand that you get your annual leave and that is it.  Of course, you can always move your family to be with you (if you have children or a significant other).

 

[orange.paint]

Taking a study break here...

I'm currently working on the ARMD DP1.When you finish your BMQ you will be sent to CTC Gagetown.You will be placed on Holding Troop(PAT Platoon,with a Armd name)where you will do odd jobs around the k-lines (which are coyote and APC hangers)or around J-7 which is the main lecture area,offices etc.J-7 is where you will be reporting to for holding platoon.You will be placed in some accommodation SOMEWHERE in Gagetown,as we have a huge shortage with the courses being run right now.

Depending on how fit you are (I.E not on sick chit etc) and when you show up you could be loaded within a month or so on DP1(New version).The new DP1 contains the remains of the old SQ,Carl G,M-72,claymore etc.Basically a small arms package.You will learn recce patrolling,section attacks,TCCCS,regimental history,AFV level 1 and 2.
You will deploy for a short 4 day exercise half way through the course,containing basic map and compass,famil to section attacks,and recce patrols to use on the end ex (which is 1 week now IIRC).
You will attend a driver wheeled course on LUVW,with civilian instructors from VALCOM.To include safe backing course and defensive driving course.
You will then be trained on your PCF (primary combat function)which will be driver and surv op.

To tie everything together you will then deploy on a end ex to confirm all things learned.Half will start as mounted,while the others come with myself on Recce patrols.Half way through you switch around.

We realised what we were sending to the regiments was not the most prepared trooper,hence the new DP1 program.This course running now is our first attempt at it,and no doubt there will be bugs to work out.But the end product will be much better IMHO.

You will be inspected every morning,locker inspection after PT which starts at 06h00.Be in shape.Basic does not prepare you well for DP1 from what we have seen.So use your time on holding to stay in or get in shape.
Your days will be long,and you will have 4+ people in each room in your shacks to live with for the whole course.
IIRC it is 62 working days long.Not including the weekends you will be CB'ed if performance is lacking.


I'm sorry if this jumps around a bit as I am away on course and in a bit of a hurry here.

 

[hammond]

Thanks Guys!
                  I greatly appreciate your taking time to answer my questions, The answers were exactly what I was looking for. I've always had an interest in the Canadian Forces, and I am looking forward to starting a career in the service late this year. Thanks so much again! The entire training process sounds incredible, and can't wait to finally work hard towards a real goal.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

RCAC,

Good info and the changes sound excellent. 

Hammond,

While I was at the Regiment we ran courses "in-house", to supplement the training given at the School.  It meant dropping everything for a month but that is better than sending everyone to Gagetown for a month of courses when we generally have the stuff in Petawawa.  Each Squadron would usually be tasked to run one or two courses with the whole show coordinated by the Ops and Trg people at Regimental Headquarters (RHQ).  Although some students might come from other units (especially with Bison driver courses), for the most part the staff and students all come from the Regiment and everyone lived "at home."  For a while our QL3 qualified soldiers arrived without any PCFs, so we (the Regt) had to constantly run PCFs.  The switch from Cougar to Leopard to Coyote also generated a need for lots of unit-run PCFs.  I'm not sure what the status is today.

If you arrive at the Regiment with both Driver and Surv Op then you should be able to hit the ground running.  You might still get another course at the Regiment (gunner, HLVW, LAV Driver etc), but that will depend on the position to which you are assigned. 

Best of luck

 

[hammond]

Thanks everyone for the quick replys and the great information! Once at regiment, i assume garrison life would be similar to infantry units? especially the Mechanized units? completing vehicle maintenance  and training refreshers. Just wondering how much time in the field training Armoured regiments conduct a year. I can understand training probably differs depending on who is deploying and when, but in a regular year how many exercises can be expected with the funding available? As well how often in training exercises would one augment infantry field exercises. Thanks again for taking time to answer my questions! I am looking forward to starting a career in the forces - Hammond

 

[The Gues-|-]

With the way things have been going in Strat land, you'll be so busy training and conducting maintenance, you'll definitley want a break.  Pre deployment training is happening all year-round.  I got to the regiment back in November and I've already started pre deployment in Jan, been to Texas in Feb.  There's talk of going even somewhere further in the summer, then Afghan land.  The VR's are flying but if it's what you want you'll love it.  If you Go LdSH(RC) you're pretty much guaranteed a tour provided you don't get stuck with mounted troop.  All the best!

 

[hammond]

Hey Guest.. thats sounds great! So right after your PCF training and posting you began pre-deployment training? Its great to hear that Armoured is a busy trade, gets me more and more anxious to apply, I just have to finish these last 2 weeks of courses  :-\ It's sad to hear that VR's are going through in an alarming rate, Ive always had a passion for the military, The Forces sound like such a fulfilling career. Just a quick question about the mounted troop, are you referring to the LAV III mech. Infantry? Thanks for the answers Guest!

 

[George Wallace]

No!  Unfortunately he is referring to Armour, and Horses........the real four legged kind.

 

[hammond]

Thank you Mr. Wallace, at first glance, I thought you were joking... Looking at there website, I am sorry for doubting you  :-\ What are the chances of being placed in the Mounted troop, is it by request and skills? or upon posting can be sent to the mounted troop? Thanks for the fast reply!

 

[The Gues-|-]

If you are not appointed to a troop when you arrive and they ask for volunteers... stay low.  Unless of course horses are your thing.  I have a buddy there and he says it's relaxed and a good go.  The chicks dig horses too.  You can either request or be voluntold.

 

[hammond]

Ahaha, Thanks Guest again! Horses are definitely not my thing  ;D Let me see if I got this right, after looking over the websites of RCD and LdSH.

LdSH Consists of
----------------------------------
-Regimental HQ = Admin
-A Sqn = Saber
-B Sqn = Saber
-C Sqn = Saber
-Recce Sqn = Recce (obviously)
-Echo Company = TUA
-HQ Sqn = Support
-Mounted Troop = the cavalry traditions

RCD
--------------------------------------
-Regimental HQ = Admin
-A Sqn = Recce
-B Sqn = Recce
-D Sqn = Recce
-HQ Sqn =  Support

Edit: To correct Squid to Squadron.. Thanks MRM!

 

[mudrecceman]

Not sure of the ORBATs, but I can tell you for sure its Sqn vice Sqd (short for squid maybe?  ;D).

 

[reccecrewman]

This course running now is our first attempt at it,and no doubt there will be bugs to work out.But the end product will be much better IMHO.

Ex-RCAC........ I'm sure it will be for the better in the long run.  I still remember arriving at the Regiment six years ago after I completed my Battle School. "OK Skins......... let's see here........ you've got ML driver and nothing else......... Recce Sqn. Admin. Tp. - Jerry Can slugger. Have a good one!"

Regards

 

[orange.paint]

Myself as well reccecrewman.I was qualified LSVW....as the MLVW was grounded Canada wide at the time.Come to find out we had two LSVW's in the whole regiment....and 30 fresh qualified guys.Suddenly on week 2 at the regiment I was given a quick OJT on how to go "stab on" as a gunner,and where not to put my legs. 

Then deployed on fall ex as a gunner...with no courses.

March till August I wasn't qualified anything.

Most of us are very happy with the new program,after a few more we can comment on the end product.Right now most of us are unhappy with how prepared a Trooper is for regimental life.

PT is up about 4 notches as well,many extremely fit guys in the sqn now.Crossfit,running and marches....gotta love it.

If anyone has any questions reference the course feel free to PM me.

 

[blacktriangle]

they ask for volunteers... stay low. 

Sound advice in many cases...