Are We Wasting Our Effort?

[rounder]

I am going to go one a bit of a rant here so please excuse me. My pressing question is what is the CF doing in Afghan? Are we "hunting the TB?" Are we providing humanitarian assistance in Kandahar? Are they patrolling the streets looking for "bad guys"? Are we actively providing training for the ANA in Kandahar? Why are there more Captains than Corporals? With so many Capt's running around I would figure they could at least figure out when our troops are coming home. Or maybe (and I think this is most likely" they are all there just absorbing time and tax dollars so they can go back to their respective messes and say they were there... they've got a star on their chest. Well I say to them "how many times did you leave the camp you fat bastard"? Thanks for F@#K all! I also find it funny how the HQ has a brandnew beautiful building to work out of but everyone else still has tents. So all in all we are spending millions of dollars so a few wankers can say they were there... thats what it seems like to me. I am open to people arguing the point, in fact I lookforward to it, it may just make me a little less bitter.

Thanks for listening to my rant!

 

[CBH99]

Okay, a few things...

1.  Your a moron.

2.  The CF are doing all of those things in Afghanistan.  We have a detachment training the ANA.  We have forces that will be hunting down and carrying out offensive operations against the Taliban and other insurgents.  CF will also be patrolling the Kandahar area.  We will be intelligence gathering, using forces on the ground and assets in the air.  We'll also be doing humanitarian and development work in the form of our PRT.

3.  The reason there are so many officer staff is because:  a)  a majority of the training detachment is comprised of officers (Correct me if I am wrong),  and b) the task force is being commanded by Canada, which is why they have a new C2 dedicated building and staff.

Other than reading various other threads on this forum, not to mention the mass amounts of newspaper articles and online news articles;  any questions you'd like to include in your rant before one of the mods hopefully locks this up?

 

[Good2Golf]

Well, okay, I try and be kind here  : ....the guys are doing all you state and more...in less than a month there will be no less than 7 RTC's that folks will be living in...do you figure that you should have been in an RTC first and have the JOC working out of mod tent?  Perhaps you might ask some engr types to gain a greater appreciation for what a huge task it is getting Roto-0 infrastructure set up, especially given all the delays the US imposed on the guys in KAF?

BTW, when you say "more Captains than Corporals" are you stating a known fact (i.e. you have the Roto-0 TO&E in front of you) or are you saying this because you see a bunch of Captains beetling around doing stuff?

May I ask, is there something that is driving this rant in particular?  Do you feel as though you have been less supported in the TF than anyone else?  ???

Duey

*edit* - ahhhhhhh....unless you have forgotten to update your profile, I see you are not even over here!  Perhaps you could inform yourself a little bit more before you make such an arse of yourself.

*edit 2* - OK, I will take Armyrick's post as proof you are at KAF...then my last two questions above my sig still stand.  Is there perhaps something you would like to suggest or propose through your chain to improve things that you think aren't happening correctly?  If you were sitting in the Comd's OGp this Sunday and saw the huge amount of work it is taking to not only continue setting the conditions for future ops but to ensure that folks are looked after as best as possible and the relief-in-place is run as effectively as possible, you might not be so quick to go off on the CoC!  You can either complain or contribute to the solution...your choice!

 

[ArmyRick]

Rounder is in afghanistan right now. CBH99, watch who your calling a moron. Stick to your weekend exercise expiriences. When people pass along what they see, then shut your yack and listen, don't insult the people who have been in theater.

 

[Sf2]

I'm not over there, nor have I ever been.

you're allowed to rant - its an open forum.  And I could only imagine frustrations of those being forced away from their families.  But I think its a bit beyond the line to start attacking other ranks, specifically what you refer to as the fat **** captains.  Your resentment is only going to rub off on those around you, which will severely affect cohesion in your team, which degrades your ability to do the job.

Talk to your peers, talk to your supervisors about your thoughts, but in a professional manner, and not a whining child.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

There's already REASONED discussion on the forum about this. As with anything military, and as most experienced supervisors are aware, if you come with a problem, you should have a workable solution.

Go to the other threads with this.

 

[Cannonfodder]

  This is a very tragic waste , nothing was gained by this ,now one family has lost a father and 3 other lives have been destroyed.The Canadian Army must realize  that there is no defence against IEDs and now they are sending more to this area ,a fools folly .More vehicle traffic more potential for fatalities .  No amount of training will prevent these accidents they will just happen and there is very little one can do .However the current leadership is rather arrogant and aggressive ,a recipe for disaster . I feel extremely sorry for the families of the soldiers and the soldiers themselves.There lives have been ruined so a current government can gain favor in the international community.
  Afghanistan is an unconventional country , the Red Army could not tame it, are we arrogant enough to think that we will fair any better ?.Optimism and idealism  will only go so far, leave Afghanistan to the JTF they are the only unit equipped ,trained and suitable for this theater.

 

[Acorn]

Yep Cannonfodder. We can do so much more without risk. Afghanistan is going to be the rock on which our colonial ship founders.  :

 

[Cannonfodder]

Hey Piper , typical response from a Rupert  , explain unlimited liabity to these men when they have to deal with there injuries for the rest of there lives.This is a misguided mission  by incompetant leadership ,the only ones who benifit from these deployments are the commanders who recieve promotions at completion for mismanagement.We will fail where every other army that entered this theater.Unconventional situations demand unconventional solutions ,monies would be far better put to use  by purchasing weapons from the combatants.If the big RED machine could not straighten this one our prospects are bleak.God  , I can only imagine what the families are going through ,truely a waste  with nothing gained.

 

[Jarnhamar]

:blotto:

 

[Jarnhamar]

The Canadian Army must realize  that there is no defence against IEDs and now they are sending more to this area ,a fools folly

Yeaaaaa fuck it, lets go home.
And if they attack Canada we should surrender to them too.

If your going to call someone on being a "rupert" you should probably throw up your own military experience so people can critique you in turn. Other wise you should probably do some more reading and less posting.

I can only imagine what the families are going through ,truely a waste  with nothing gained.

To  sound a little cliche ish, freedom isn't free.
This man gave his life. 3 other soldiers are injured.  Nothing gained?  Says you?
These guys were killed/injured doing something they believed in.  You're doing a good job at dishonouring them.

the only ones who benifit from these deployments are the commanders who recieve promotions at completion for mismanagement.

You forgot the afghans whobennifit from our sacrifices.

 

[Acorn]

Hey Piper , typical response from a Rupert  , explain unlimited liabity to these men when they have to deal with there injuries for the rest of there lives.This is a misguided mission  by incompetant leadership ,the only ones who benifit from these deployments are the commanders who recieve promotions at completion for mismanagement.We will fail where every other army that entered this theater.Unconventional situations demand unconventional solutions ,monies would be far better put to use  by purchasing weapons from the combatants.If the big RED machine could not straighten this one our prospects are bleak.God  , I can only imagine what the families are going through ,truely a waste  with nothing gained.

Jeez, three posts and a clear expert (unable to use the spacebar, but still an expert - clearly).

Son, your head is firmly in a box of preconceptions. Fair enough - you are neither alone, nor on the side most locked to those preconceived notions. Piper is a young Rupert, in need of guidance, but not "typical" at all.

You, however, are showing all the traits of a "typical" bitter ex infanteer. Also a selective use of history - a tip: you need to look at everything in context and stich it together into a coherent product. Thus far you've confined yourself to slander. If you have the miracle solution to Afghanistan you'd best get it in the public domain quickly.

 

[career_radio-checker]

    No amount of training will prevent these accidents they will just happen and there is very little one can do .However the current leadership is rather arrogant and aggressive ,a recipe for disaster . I feel extremely sorry for the families of the soldiers and the soldiers themselves.There lives have been ruined so a current government can gain favor in the international community.
  Afghanistan is an unconventional country, the Red Army could not tame it, are we arrogant enough to think that we will fair any better ?.Optimism and idealism   will only go so far, leave Afghanistan to the JTF they are the only unit equipped ,trained and suitable for this theater.

Hey Piper , typical response from a Rupert  , explain unlimited liabity to these men when they have to deal with there injuries for the rest of there lives.This is a misguided mission  by incompetant leadership ,the only ones who benifit from these deployments are the commanders who recieve promotions at completion for mismanagement.We will fail where every other army that entered this theater.Unconventional situations demand unconventional solutions ,monies would be far better put to use  by purchasing weapons from the combatants.If the big RED machine could not straighten this one our prospects are bleak.God  , I can only imagine what the families are going through ,truely a waste  with nothing gained.

Are you working for a political party trying to solicit soldiers' votes on an online forum? Or better yet, are you working for Al-Qaida?

 

[vonGarvin]

  Afghanistan is an unconventional country , the Red Army could not tame it, are we arrogant enough to think that we will fair any better ?.Optimism and idealism   will only go so far, leave Afghanistan to the JTF they are the only unit equipped ,trained and suitable for this theater.

The Red Army could not tame Afghanistan for a number of reasons.  They were there in a belligerent role.  We are not.  By this I mean that the USSR invaded the nation and attempted to suppress Afghanis.  NATO is not doing that.  As well, the Afghanis are not being armed by the US (as they were vs. the USSR).  So, let's not compare apples to oranges.  I mean, I highly doubt that the USSR had CIMIC teams, worked on infrastructure, or even health.  Brezhnev and the rest could not have cared less about Afghanis.  So, this is not 1980, this is some 26 years later, a different mindset, and we are not trying to occupy Afghanis: we are after "those in the mountains".
Now, to set the conditions for long-term peace in Afghanistan (or elsewhere, for that matter) requires much more than "JTF-2" or any other military action.  Political action is required.  Social action.  And, FYI, the JTF is NOT "...the only unit equipped, trained and suitable" for Afghanistan.  Heck, our Citizen Soldiers of WWII fought against the hardline fanatic 12 SS Panzerdivision "Hitlerjugend" from 7 June onward near Caen, and they gave better than we got.  The "pre-war permanent force regiments" were busy fighting Fallschirmjäger  et alin Italy.  So, "high speed commandoes" do of course have a role, but they are NOT the only ones to fight to win.  We need an effort across the spectrum, from CIMIC to mechanised infantry to health care professionals to RCMP ("CivPol") to JTF 2.
Just my $0.02 worth, and you get what you paid for.

 

[Cannonfodder]

    Death and dismemberment are permanent , let that sink in for a while . When all the cameras are gone  and these soldiers get on with there daily lives , ask them if it was worth it  . Were  doing a good job over there but let us qaulify and qauntify what we are doing . Clear objectives and timelines need to be in place before you take on any project . Exposing your men to unspecified threat for for an unspecified time is irresponsible and unacceptable . The fact of the matter is that these incidents will continue because of mis guided leadership .
  I feel no need to put my military experiance on the table  but I will tell you this , when the first  bullet  goes  by  your head , mortar round falls near you ,ask your self is this worth it ? . Remember the people that have the most to gain  , have the least  to lose .

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
Clear objectives and timelines need to be in place before you take on any project .

All respect to you about where you have been, however, by your statement above I guess my father and his comrades should have never got involved in that stupid World War 2 mess........

 

[Armymedic]

Cannonfodder,

The risk is not unknown to us who serve. Incidents such as Sunday's reinforce them.

Thank you for your well thought out opposing view. Unfortunately, I feel this is not the appropriate place for your discussion. Perhaps the mods could put your opposition up on a different thread so we a discuss it further.

 

[Cannonfodder]

  Non taken , but Afghanistan is an international experiment in nation building  not the Third Reich . Our ideals of how a society should run has  no relevance  in Afghanistan .

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

On Armymedics good advice, this has been split off from the original thread. I agree it was bad form to argue the merits of our mission there.
Thanks, Bruce

 

[Cannonfodder]

    Sorry , I do not want to distress anybody , my opinion  differs from many on this board  . These families are going through hell with no end in sight . The media and the public will forget  and where does that leave these individuals , a disability check from VA and lifetime to be reminded of what happened . Iam sure some Politician or Military Officer will have a photo op with them at there expense."Good job troop , your doing alot of good over there, we are truely saddened by your loss " , kind of adding insult to injury . Mark my words  some members will make there careers on this , at these guys expense . What is NDHQ doing to remeady this situation ? .