Are we doing this right?

[geo]

(flack jacket on)

Gotta question open to everyone.

While I have plenty of respect for everyone who is out there on deployment, are we overdoing it by placing our national flag in mourning for someone killed in a road accident?

Last month, there was a member of TF0206 that was killed by a LAV at CMTC Wainright. Excluding those of the R22R, National flag did not get put to 1/2 mast.

Have mixed feelings on this matter.

Should we OR shouldn't we?

If the US were to place their colours @ 1/2 mast for each death... their colours would be at half mast all the time.... which it isn't

Are we overdoing it?

 

[Good2Golf]

I think at the very least, it should be done for troops lost on operations.  Some may bring other scenarios up such as death during training for ops, or during exercises, but I have absolutely no problem with half mast for loss in ops.

Duey

 

[Armymedic]

NO.

Any soldier dies on duty, it should be put out as a message and all Army installations should fly flags half mast.

If the soldier dies off duty, then do it by area/base for the requisite period.

we are, after all, on the same team.

 

[geo]

Medic...
so we did it wrong when the country "ignored" the death at CMTC?

 

[3rd Horseman]

After watching the police and fire fighters have massive parades for members that died on duty be it by gun fire or not it is the very least we can do for our soldiers. If CMTC did not fly flags at half mast then I think they made a mistake.

 

[geo]

t'wouldn't be CMTC proprely speaking... those guys are but a small cog in a much larger wheel...
Directives of such nature are not spontaneous but are directed by NDHQ & Fed Gov't

 

[Armymedic]

Medic...
so we did it wrong when the country "ignored" the death at CMTC?

Yep.

 

[GO!!!]

Well,

Considering that we lower our flags for;

National abused women day, tsunamis, floods, hurricanes, the anniversaries of the Montreal Polytechnique massacre, 9/11, and others, a soldiers death should be national if on operations, and local if off duty.

I think we lower our flags for far too many things already though.

I heard a funny story about this though!

When Sheila Copps was the Heritage Minister, she decreed that the national day of abused women to be a national day of mourning, and all flags would be at half mast. The following year, she was in the presence of a Naval vessel, and observed it to be flying the Canadian flag at (full?) mast. So she demanded it be lowered. The Captain of the ship himself spoke to her and made it known that a flag at half mast was an international symbol of distress (or some other sign of "assistance required") She would not budge though, and ever since, Canadian ships are plagued with offers of assistance whenever they go to sea on on of our many days of mourning.

Can anyone in the Navy authenticate this?

 

[geo]

Due to personal agendas, politicians are a pretty rotten bunch to consult on protocol.
they should stick to something they know something about... like getting in everyone's way

 

[meg]

They lowered the flag at my school for the passing of Mr. Dress-Up, and a favorite hamster in the rodent lab.  I think the problem is with the extra flag lowerings, not the one for a soldier.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I could see the base flags where 2 RCR is stationed in Afghanistan being lowered, their home station in Canada, and the soldier's home town (Victoria in this case?) lowering the flag until after his memorial service.  I don't see it being a national event of mourning.  Not to minimize the loss, but I have to agree with those who feel we do this far too often. 

 

[Infanteer]

When Sheila Copps was the Heritage Minister, she decreed that the national day of abused women to be a national day of mourning, and all flags would be at half mast. The following year, she was in the presence of a Naval vessel, and observed it to be flying the Canadian flag at (full?) mast. So she demanded it be lowered. The Captain of the ship himself spoke to her and made it known that a flag at half mast was an international symbol of distress (or some other sign of "assistance required") She would not budge though, and ever since, Canadian ships are plagued with offers of assistance whenever they go to sea on on of our many days of mourning.

Can anyone in the Navy authenticate this?

I think the case could be made to tell her to piss up a rope - she has no authority to issue orders to the Canadian Forces.

 

[geo]

Infanteer...
OK... we've told her and she has resigned from politics in embarassment

 

[ErorZ]

Last month, there was a member of TF0206 that was killed by a LAV at CMTC Wainright. Excluding those of the R22R, National flag did not get put to 1/2 mast.

Just to clear something up...

All flags within the training area were ordered down to half mast, I sent the order via the BDE Net to have all mast lowerd to half mast, after I was informed to do so by the BDE RSM. This order should have trickled down to all within the training area.

I don't know what happend outside the training area though...

 

[geo]

Erorz...
IMHO, having CMTC go to half mast is correct
having Valcatraz go to half mast is correct
Can even possibly see the LFQA bases go to half mast
just not sure it would be necessary or appropriate for the country to go into mourning...
then you have the incident with 2RCR and the PRT...
Should the country go to half mast when a soldier dies in a vehicle accident?
Should the country go to half mast if a soldier dies electrocuted (in theatre) while working on the Camp's generator (in Afghanistan)?
I don't intend to diminish the contribution of the RCR Casualties but have we gone so far to be PC that we dip everything?

 

[Armymedic]

not the country gents, but the Army for sure, possibly the entire CF.

 

[geo]

ummm Medic....
are you suggesting that we go to half mast for every member of the CF passes away while he is "in service" be it
out of country or in our own country?
in Combat mission or anything else?
- 031 Infantry dies from a LAV vehicle rollover in A'stan
- 031 infantry dies from a LAV vehicle rollover in CMTC
- 031 infantry dies from being hit by a municipal bus that drives around the base while he's doing PT.
-935 truck driver that dies in a convoy when hit by RPG in A'stan
- 935 truck driver that dies falling asleep at the wheen with his 10ton in A'Stan
- 935 truck driver that dies when his vehicle burns from an electrical fault while @ CMTC

How about for the "soft" trades - does it make a difference?
- 911 Supp tech who is crushed to death when some shelving collapses over him
- 836 RMS clerk who is ...............................

 

[axeman]

Well,

Considering that we lower our flags for;

National abused women day, tsunamis, floods, hurricanes, the anniversaries of the Montreal Polytechnique massacre, 9/11, and others, a soldiers death should be national if on operations, and local if off duty.

I think we lower our flags for far too many things already though.

I heard a funny story about this though!



When Sheila Copps was the Heritage Minister, she decreed that the national day of abused women to be a national day of mourning, and all flags would be at half mast. The following year, she was in the presence of a Naval vessel, and observed it to be flying the Canadian flag at (full?) mast. So she demanded it be lowered. The Captain of the ship himself spoke to her and made it known that a flag at half mast was an international symbol of distress (or some other sign of "assistance required") She would not budge though, and ever since, Canadian ships are plagued with offers of assistance whenever they go to sea on on of our many days of mourning.

Can anyone in the Navy authenticate this?

the navy goes to 1/2 mast as a surrender or a distress call

 

[geo]

surender = strike colours - bring em all the way down.

Thought distressed was signalled by flying your flag upside down
(like the USMC did with a Cdn flag at a world series game)...boy was that Marine distressed!

 

[Armymedic]

ummm Medic....
are you suggesting that we go to half mast for every member of the CF passes away while he is "in service" be it
out of country or in our own country?
in Combat mission or anything else?
- 031 Infantry dies from a LAV vehicle rollover in A'stan
- 031 infantry dies from a LAV vehicle rollover in CMTC
- 031 infantry dies from being hit by a municipal bus that drives around the base while he's doing PT.
-935 truck driver that dies in a convoy when hit by RPG in A'stan
- 935 truck driver that dies falling asleep at the when with his 10ton in A'Stan
- 935 truck driver that dies when his vehicle burns from an electrical fault while @ CMTC

How about for the "soft" trades - does it make a difference?
- 911 Supp tech who is crushed to death when some shelving collapses over him
- 836 RMS clerk who is ...............................

yes, absolutely, a service death on duty is a service death on duty...
I could care less what your MOC, MOSID, whatever, is...if your broken soon to be lifeless body is in front of me, I will do what I can to make sure you survive.

If I am unsuccessful, then you should be mourned exactly the same, regardless of the cause or your trade....all men are equal in death.

as for those soft trades...if the 911 doesn't do the job, you don't get bullets or food. If the 836 doesn't, you don't get paid, or you family doesn't get those benefits they deserve from your service.

There are no "soft" trades.