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Animal/Human Hybrids??

muskrat89

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Maybe we can have some interesting discussion without the rifts that seem to develop a la our political or religious threads.  ;)

I had mixed feelings about all this cloning stuff, but to me, this is just plain freaky  ???

From National Geographic.com

Animal-Human Hybrids Spark Controversy
Maryann Mott
National Geographic News
January 25, 2005

Scientists have begun blurring the line between human and animal by producing chimerasâ ”a hybrid creature that's part human, part animal.

Chinese scientists at the Shanghai Second Medical University in 2003 successfully fused human cells with rabbit eggs. The embryos were reportedly the first human-animal chimeras successfully created. They were allowed to develop for several days in a laboratory dish before the scientists destroyed the embryos to harvest their stem cells.

In Minnesota last year researchers at the Mayo Clinic created pigs with human blood flowing through their bodies.

And at Stanford University in California an experiment might be done later this year to create mice with human brains.

Scientists feel that, the more humanlike the animal, the better research model it makes for testing drugs or possibly growing "spare parts," such as livers, to transplant into humans.

Watching how human cells mature and interact in a living creature may also lead to the discoveries of new medical treatments.

But creating human-animal chimerasâ ”named after a monster in Greek mythology that had a lion's head, goat's body, and serpent's tailâ ”has raised troubling questions: What new subhuman combination should be produced and for what purpose? At what point would it be considered human? And what rights, if any, should it have?

There are currently no U.S. federal laws that address these issues.

Ethical Guidelines

The National Academy of Sciences, which advises the U.S. government, has been studying the issue. In March it plans to present voluntary ethical guidelines for researchers.

A chimera is a mixture of two or more species in one body. Not all are considered troubling, though.

For example, faulty human heart valves are routinely replaced with ones taken from cows and pigs. The surgeryâ ”which makes the recipient a human-animal chimeraâ ”is widely accepted. And for years scientists have added human genes to bacteria and farm animals.

What's caused the uproar is the mixing of human stem cells with embryonic animals to create new species.

Biotechnology activist Jeremy Rifkin is opposed to crossing species boundaries, because he believes animals have the right to exist without being tampered with or crossed with another species.

He concedes that these studies would lead to some medical breakthroughs. Still, they should not be done.

"There are other ways to advance medicine and human health besides going out into the strange, brave new world of chimeric animals," Rifkin said, adding that sophisticated computer models can substitute for experimentation on live animals.

"One doesn't have to be religious or into animal rights to think this doesn't make sense," he continued. "It's the scientists who want to do this. They've now gone over the edge into the pathological domain."

David Magnus, director of the Stanford Center for Biomedical Ethics at Stanford University, believes the real worry is whether or not chimeras will be put to uses that are problematic, risky, or dangerous.

Human Born to Mice Parents?

For example, an experiment that would raise concerns, he said, is genetically engineering mice to produce human sperm and eggs, then doing in vitro fertilization to produce a child whose parents are a pair of mice.

"Most people would find that problematic," Magnus said, "but those uses are bizarre and not, to the best of my knowledge, anything that anybody is remotely contemplating. Most uses of chimeras are actually much more relevant to practical concerns."

Last year Canada passed the Assisted Human Reproduction Act, which bans chimeras. Specifically, it prohibits transferring a nonhuman cell into a human embryo and putting human cells into a nonhuman embryo.

Cynthia Cohen is a member of Canada's Stem Cell Oversight Committee, which oversees research protocols to ensure they are in accordance with the new guidelines.

She believes a ban should also be put into place in the U.S.

Creating chimeras, she said, by mixing human and animal gametes (sperms and eggs) or transferring reproductive cells, diminishes human dignity.

"It would deny that there is something distinctive and valuable about human beings that ought to be honored and protected," said Cohen, who is also the senior research fellow at Georgetown University's Kennedy Institute of Ethics in Washington, D.C.

But, she noted, the wording on such a ban needs to be developed carefully. It shouldn't outlaw ethical and legitimate experimentsâ ”such as transferring a limited number of adult human stem cells into animal embryos in order to learn how they proliferate and grow during the prenatal period.

Irv Weissman, director of Stanford University's Institute of Cancer/Stem Cell Biology and Medicine in California, is against a ban in the United States.

"Anybody who puts their own moral guidance in the way of this biomedical science, where they want to impose their willâ ”not just be part of an argumentâ ”if that leads to a ban or moratorium. ... they are stopping research that would save human lives," he said.

Mice With Human Brains

Weissman has already created mice with brains that are about one percent human.

Later this year he may conduct another experiment where the mice have 100 percent human brains. This would be done, he said, by injecting human neurons into the brains of embryonic mice.

Before being born, the mice would be killed and dissected to see if the architecture of a human brain had formed. If it did, he'd look for traces of human cognitive behavior.

Weissman said he's not a mad scientist trying to create a human in an animal body. He hopes the experiment leads to a better understanding of how the brain works, which would be useful in treating diseases like Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease.

The test has not yet begun. Weissman is waiting to read the National Academy's report, due out in March.

William Cheshire, associate professor of neurology at the Mayo Clinic's Jacksonville, Florida, branch, feels that combining human and animal neurons is problematic.

"This is unexplored biologic territory," he said. "Whatever moral threshold of human neural development we might choose to set as the limit for such an experiment, there would be a considerable risk of exceeding that limit before it could be recognized."

Cheshire supports research that combines human and animal cells to study cellular function. As an undergraduate he participated in research that fused human and mouse cells.

But where he draws the ethical line is on research that would destroy a human embryo to obtain cells, or research that would create an organism that is partly human and partly animal.

"We must be cautious not to violate the integrity of humanity or of animal life over which we have a stewardship responsibility," said Cheshire, a member of Christian Medical and Dental Associations. "Research projects that create human-animal chimeras risk disturbing fragile ecosystems, endanger health, and affront species integrity."
 
 
I'm waiting for the inevitable mistakes to happen, and some of these chimeras escaping into the wild a la "Species".

Rodents with human (or merely increased) intelligence anyone?  Or rabbits?  They don't breed much, right?
 
Mice with human brains, did anyone else think about that old cartoon "The Brain" or whatever it was called with those 2 mice, one which was a genius and the other which was a twit?  :D
 
Creating chimeras, she said, by mixing human and animal gametes (sperms and eggs) or transferring reproductive cells, diminishes human dignity.

I think unaided, natural humans do their own fine job of diminishing human "dignity". Jim-Bob smacking Raeleen around the trailer, or Akbar slicing off that Britons head while his pals announce the greatness of Allah in and of itself doesn't reinforce "human dignity". That's just some horseshit line thrown out to confuse the issue. Face it, somewhere down the line, this is going to morph from "out there" science fiction to no-shit, smack you in the face reality. Someday, somewhere there is going to be someone with enough intellectual horsepower and the right resources coupled with sheer curiosity, asking "Why not?". What remains to be seen is what use they will make of these hybrids. If the Western nations put a ban on this line of inquiry and research, they will just force it out of the public realm where it can be scrutinized and send it underground. Worst case scenario is these scientists then being taken in by rouge elements (think North Korea, China, Iran, the usual suspects) who want to make augmented supersoldiers or what have you. This is just the same as the cloning issue, but with, IMO, worse implications in the long run.
 
My problem is what kind of virus that could be developed from one of these "clones" we have already had bad experiences when an animal virus makes the jump to humans,...what happens when the virus already has our "code" ingrained in it from its creation?
 
Jeez you guys all worry to much.

Scientist only want what is best for humanity, think of the the lives that may be saved.  Stop watching all that TV and Movies mumbo jumbo it is rotting your brain.  Big Coporations would never do anything that would be particularly harmful to humans as a species.



And if you buy that i have a tropical island just off the coast of Edmonton to sell ya.

 
This line of reserch is simply grown up amoral children playing, except they use living things instead of Lego.

Most of the "reasons" being advocated for doing the "reserch" are sheer nonsense, good results are being gained from using "adult stem cells" (i.e. the ones ALREADY IN YOUR BODY) to assist healing, investigate diseases and potentially clone tissue and organs for theraputic reasons.

Like some other posters, I worry about the effects of such organisms escaping the confines of the lab. We know so little really, everyone was quite surprised when the human genome was sequenced not to long ago and discovered that a: the human genome is not as big as everyone had assumed, and; b, we share 50% of our genes with such organisms as bananas. I am sure there are implications to that , but what they really are is way beyond me.

The moral and ethical questions raised by this are also disturbing, I for one cannot even imagine the sort of mind that would think of such things. Maybe we would be better off if Pinkey and the Brain did take over the world....
 
Someday, somewhere there is going to be someone with enough intellectual horsepower and the right resources coupled with sheer curiosity, asking "Why not?".

I agree. This will happen eventually.

Its only a matter of time when growing hearts for transplant develops into techniques for creating better hearts at birth. Which will in turn start doctors looking to make all human organs more robust. This will continue until somewhere down the line, the human species will look nothing like it does today. In my opinion, mainstream genetic engineering will do for human evolution what the industrial age did for manufacturing and what the internet is doing for computers.  Now that its been thought of, its only a matter of time before someone makes it a reality.

The human race is developing at an exponential rate. In the past 200 years we've had greater technological leaps then we've had in the past 2000 years, and our speed of development is in a constant state of acceleration. Think about what the internet has done in 20 years. Think of all the information being shared at such high speeds. What we've done is linked mankind together to make a more efficient use of our common base of knowledge. In the past, one man would be limited to the information available in his local area. Now, he can quickly access the ideas of millions of other thinkers from the other side of the world. The speed and numbers are staggering.

There is no way to stop evolution. Ever watch Jurassic Park? Life will always find a way. So why fight it? I've always felt that your individual system of ethics is a product of your environment. When your environment changes, your ethics change with it. I'm not one to believe in a moral law that has been set in stone. There are just too many cases in the history of mankind where people were sure they were doing what was right, only to be considered savages or fanatics in history books. So if history only remembers the winner, you might as well be on the winning side.
 
You need to watch it with the genetic engineering sometimes those crappy genes you have do something that they wouldn't think.

There was something I saw on the discovery channel I believe that explained it in the form of some genetic disease that these people have, I forget the place but it was around Asia I think.  But anyway, the people have this severe genetic disorder that makes them hideous and die at an early age and 1/4 of the people have it, but it makes then immune to Malaria.  So the tradeoff is questionable in if it's worth it or not.

But having Miniature Elephants with super-intelligent monky's riding them would own.
 
If we only knew what all researchers do in theyr labs... Really, its freaking. I'm a biochemist and i used to do cloning on human cell... In our case, it was to find a way to treat arthrosis...

Steam cells are like a pandora box.... They just find out that those cells were responsible for... (ha hell, i dont know how to say it in english...) when you are treated for cancer,  then a few year later, it came back....

And there is always some microbiologists who are creating new viruses, new bacteria....

So science is playing with our lives everyday.

 
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