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jollyjacktar
Guest
This guy has a "Sully" moment in the air and saves all 127 on board. 
The photos on the attached story are.... 
The photos on the attached story are.... 
Airline pilot lands safely after hail storm smashes all cockpit windows
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jollyjacktar
Guest
I don't know, can you get surprised by these kind of storms?
gryphonv
Sr. Member
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Strike said:
'Our locator did not show this weather disaster, this is why it happened. It was hard, but the main thing is that people are alive.'
Seems.the storm happened so fast that it never showed up until it was too late.
They say it only lasted 20 minutes also.
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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Actually, quite possible that the storm was not detected. There was even a "Mayday" episode on something similar, the Crew flew into the worse of the storm even though their weather radar showed it as a calm area between two storms.
Thing is with radars that the weather doesn't just cause a reflection that can be detected, it also disperses and absorb radar energy so as to reduce its usefulness. For instance, on a naval navigation radar, the range at which we detect a given contact can be cut by more than half in heavy fog. Similarly, I have seen (and know it happens sometimes especially in Monsoon countries) situation where particularly heavy downpour, instead of showing up on my radar screen as a "cloud" type of contact, actually doesn't paint at all because all the energy is either reflected in all direction or merely absorbed by the huge amount of water.
It's is quite possible here that there was so much water in the air that no radar return made it to the cockpit - so it showed as a green area, safe for air navigation. If it happens at night, then the pilots don't even have visual to help them avoid the storm.
Thing is with radars that the weather doesn't just cause a reflection that can be detected, it also disperses and absorb radar energy so as to reduce its usefulness. For instance, on a naval navigation radar, the range at which we detect a given contact can be cut by more than half in heavy fog. Similarly, I have seen (and know it happens sometimes especially in Monsoon countries) situation where particularly heavy downpour, instead of showing up on my radar screen as a "cloud" type of contact, actually doesn't paint at all because all the energy is either reflected in all direction or merely absorbed by the huge amount of water.
It's is quite possible here that there was so much water in the air that no radar return made it to the cockpit - so it showed as a green area, safe for air navigation. If it happens at night, then the pilots don't even have visual to help them avoid the storm.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
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/nerd alert
Without getting *into the boring weeds* of RADAR stuff, hail is harder for RADAR to display than rain. Rain turns into something similar to a Hersey Kiss when it is falling, flattening out on the bottom and easy(er) to see with a RADAR using horizontal polarization (polarization being the orientation of the *E* field in an Electromagentic wave). Weather radar usually uses something like a color *rating* to separate rate/density of precipitation...with the basic *green is good, red it bad* visual display.
However, with stuff like hail, it doesn't flatten out, maintains its shape AND it bounces/reflects a lot of the RF energy away from direction it came. This would still be the case if you used say, vertical polarization as well (Horizontal and Vertical being linear polarizations, vice circular, etc). There is also some trg required to become a good Wx/Wx Avoidance RADAR Op. Things that look benign to a lot of people don't look benign to someone who has experience doing Wx watch/avoidance tasks. Caveat, I've only been trained on and operated 3 different airborne RADARs for Wx stuff.
Not all RADAR is good for seeing weather, same as a dedicated weather RADAR would be junk for sfc surv task. Software and parameters are the other big pieces of the puzzle.
Horizontal Polarization, good for seeing precipitation.
Without getting *into the boring weeds* of RADAR stuff, hail is harder for RADAR to display than rain. Rain turns into something similar to a Hersey Kiss when it is falling, flattening out on the bottom and easy(er) to see with a RADAR using horizontal polarization (polarization being the orientation of the *E* field in an Electromagentic wave). Weather radar usually uses something like a color *rating* to separate rate/density of precipitation...with the basic *green is good, red it bad* visual display.
However, with stuff like hail, it doesn't flatten out, maintains its shape AND it bounces/reflects a lot of the RF energy away from direction it came. This would still be the case if you used say, vertical polarization as well (Horizontal and Vertical being linear polarizations, vice circular, etc). There is also some trg required to become a good Wx/Wx Avoidance RADAR Op. Things that look benign to a lot of people don't look benign to someone who has experience doing Wx watch/avoidance tasks. Caveat, I've only been trained on and operated 3 different airborne RADARs for Wx stuff.
Not all RADAR is good for seeing weather, same as a dedicated weather RADAR would be junk for sfc surv task. Software and parameters are the other big pieces of the puzzle.
Horizontal Polarization, good for seeing precipitation.
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Hey! Us Sea King guys have only been using a weather radar for surface survelliance for...42 years.
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jollyjacktar
Guest
SeaKingTacco said:
Is that kind of like a Saskatchewan weather stone?
windscreen is wet - raining
windscreen is dry - not raining
windscreen is white - snowing or foggy
windscreen is hot and dry - sunny...?
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I assume he did not lose his ILS and did a Cat 2 approach.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
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SeaKingTacco said:
So you folks must be freakin' awesome at it. :nod:
It must be awful weird to do a homing straight to a contact on the new platform 8) I can't wrap my head around being radar blind on the nose...but I also envy folks flying platforms with 360 coverage.
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Eye In The Sky said:So you folks must be freakin' awesome at it. :nod:
It must be awful weird to do a homing straight to a contact on the new platform 8) I can't wrap my head around being radar blind on the nose...but I also envy folks flying platforms with 360 coverage.
Meh- you get used to curve of pursuits. The Sea King radar has actually turned out to be surprisingly good at detecting small contacts, close in, now that we digitize/signal process it thru a laptop.
The 360 coverage is just around the corner
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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We kept analog radars on the hovercraft as they were better at showing faint targets, which the digital ones would decide were not real till it was to late.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
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I also wish we'd kept some of the legacy stuff when we went to Block III Aurora...I miss the Block 2 raw radar (analog). The new IRS has a Nav mode that looks similar but...well I'd love to see the raw radar like I was trained in sometimes.