Accidents involving Emergency Vehicles

[mariomike]

A traffic fatality involving an emergency vehicle was discussed in another thread.

Perhaps a subject worthy of a thread of its own.

Anyone with an interest in the subject of emergency vehicle operations may find this U.S. National Safety Council report of interest.

In 2020, 180 people died in crashes involving emergency vehicles. The majority of these deaths were occupants of non-emergency vehicles (56%). Deaths among pedestrians accounted for another 25%, while emergency vehicle drivers represented 11% and emergency vehicle passengers accounted for about 5% of the deaths. The majority of these deaths (69%) occurred in multi-vehicle crashes. Crashes involving police vehicles accounted for the most deaths (132), followed by ambulances (31), and fire trucks (17).

Emergency Vehicles - Injury Facts

Emergency vehicle crashes killed 224 people in 202. Half of these deaths were occupants of non-emergency vehicles (50%).

injuryfacts.nsc.org

In addition to the above, there have also been studies of "wake-effect" collisions which occur as a result of an emergency vehicle's transit with lights and siren activated, but do not involve the emergency vehicle.

Substantiating the existence and magnitude of wake-effect collisions may have major implications regarding the manner of emergency vehicle response.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have met a number of experienced EHS personal, that prefer to travel with minimal lights and sirens. Just using them to get through crowded intersections slowly and carefully.

 

[Booter]

I have met a number of experienced EHS personal, that prefer to travel with minimal lights and sirens. Just using them to get through crowded intersections slowly and carefully.

Slow and steady constant movement is better than nonsensical speeding while crossing your fingers in my experience

 

[mariomike]

You have to learn what you, and your vehicle, are capable of - in the area you work. That takes driver education. After that, practice and experience.

Like any other professional skill.

A big change for me came in 1980. I was assigned as driver of a GMC 40-foot "New Look" aka "fishbowl" ( because it had a six-piece rounded windshield ) bus.
I think you only see them in transit museums now.

It had a Detroit Diesel engine, Allison VH9 transmission, and air brakes. Fully equipped with the usual red lights, siren - and air horn.
Required a CZ licence.

No power-steering.

They are pretty common now. But, I believe back then it was a first.

Anyone familiar with Toronto traffic would know what we were up against. Just have to make the best time you can, as safely you can.

If the taxpayers want better Unit hour Utilization ( UhU ), ante up and put more units in service.

 

[RedFive]

Slow and steady constant movement is better than nonsensical speeding while crossing your fingers in my experience

I agree with that. Big city lights and siren driving, to me, is to use them to get people to get out of your way, not drive along at ludicrous speeds hoping everybody has seen and heard you. Most drivers are oblivious, and most vehicles so soundproofed they can't hear your siren even if they are paying attention.

 

[mariomike]

In this town, a polite tap on the horn was ussually sufficient. If not, there was a toggle switch to give the Federal a gentle buzz.

For a while, we had those sirens like they use in France and Germany. Very nice European sound, like in the old movies. You could set the volume low.

Other than the Accident Squad, our police did not have sirens.

The new "Rumblers" ,

causes noticeable vibrations to drivers and pedestrians who are near it and helps to generate attention in high-noise environments like "dense, urban traffic"

 

[lenaitch]

I didn't look at the link in detail but there can be a number of mitigating factors. Emergency vehicles, especially police vehicles, log a lot of kilos, so simple time on the road can lead to more exposure. As well, statistically, you would want to factor out any emergency vehicle caught up in a multi-vehicle collision simply because it was there, along with being struck while stationary - we do that a whole lot more than the general public.

In my road time (many moons ago), the use of warning equipment was typically kept to a minimum. My coach simply refused to use them when responding because he was tired of too many people doing stupid stuff. Now, it seems departmental policies, especially EMS and fire, are more prescriptive. With a lot more junior members on the road, I see a lot of 'blue light syndrome' happening.

 

[KevinB]

I agree with that. Big city lights and siren driving, to me, is to use them to get people to get out of your way, not drive along at ludicrous speeds hoping everybody has seen and heard you. Most drivers are oblivious, and most vehicles so soundproofed they can't hear your siren even if they are paying attention.

That’s the ram bumper’s role.

 

[mariomike]

In my road time (many moons ago), the use of warning equipment was typically kept to a minimum. My coach simply refused to use them when responding because he was tired of too many people doing stupid stuff. Now, it seems departmental policies, especially EMS and fire, are more prescriptive.

Like so many things, use of the warning system is a liability issue. Don't use it, it can be used as a "Delay in Service". Big $$$ if you do not, at least, run your lights. Although, as you say, it is more prescription now. But, with near constant "severe traffic congestion" you have to use something, or you are not going anywhere.

Or. if involved in an accident, you can at least prove you had them on. I used the siren sparingly. But, ran the lights.

Perhaps not as necessary during the wee hours in rural areas.

Everything is electronically recorded now. Even the old-time mechanical- paper Kienzle tachographs when came on recorded.

Years ago, because the old 12-volt Federal pulsating "wail and yelps" were too loud, and frequently over-used, they switched us to the softer, two-tone European-style.

Some joker posted a vid of an ambulance jammed in severe traffic congestion - using an ice cream truck melody sound in leiu of the siren.
It was more pleasing to the ear, and they weren't going anywhere, anyway.

With a lot more junior members on the road, I see a lot of 'blue light syndrome' happening.

In the old days, junior EMS members were not allowed behind the wheel. Period.
And you had to pass a "Blue Book" test, similar to the London taxi drivers. Scratch a fender? Let your partner drive.

Metro's six fire departments all had permanent drivers back then, to the best of my knowledge.

I guess the police were different.

But, as an Adam-12 and "Emergency!" fan, both shows had permanent drivers.
I remember one where the senior guy told the junior one to "gas it up, and clean the windshield". Poor guy was so nervous he scratched a fender. Never saw him behind the wheel again.

I don't know about other services. but our was big on safe driver recognition. Annual dinner dances, boat cruises etc. Certificates, watches, pens, and jackets etc.

The annual truck and bus rodeo was a big event. I think drivers took more pride in their safety record than they do now.

It's a skill to be learned like handling a weapon, or fire-fighting or patient care. It takes years of practice.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I remember the Svc Bat have the driving rodeo, that was a big event and even CFB Chilliwack had one with Base Transport, with trophy's, ribbons, accolades.

 

[mariomike]

I remember the Svc Bat have the driving rodeo, that was a big event and even CFB Chilliwack had one with Base Transport, with trophy's, ribbons, accolades.

I flattened a lot of pylons.

 

[mariomike]

A little dash-cam vid giving an idea what it was like behind the wheel of an emergency vehicle in this town. Day in and day out.

"We're not gonna male it!"

 

[lenaitch]

Perhaps not as necessary during the wee hours in rural areas.

A friend is a hall Captain of our local volunteer fire service. He caught one of his guys running full siren in the middle of the night down some rural road saying 'if I gotta be awake, so do they'. It cost him several months of calls.

Metro's six fire departments all had permanent drivers back then, to the best of my knowledge.

A neighbour is with a city department (not Toronto). With them it's an assignment. Younger members really don't want it because you are stuck running the pump and don't get to do the cool stuff. He's older so kinda okay with it.

But, as an Adam-12 and "Emergency!" fan, both shows had permanent drivers.

That might have had more to do with casting than anything else. Besides, on Adam-12, wasn't one supposed to be a rookie?

The annual truck and bus rodeo was a big event. I think drivers took more pride in their safety record than they do now

If you are into motorcycles and want to see some of the most skilled riding on the planet, catch the Great Lakes Police Motorcycle Training Seminar. This year it is again at the 407-ETR compound on Steeles West. It's all slow speed skills stuff ('flat work' as the horsey world calls it). I've been riding for about 55 years and couldn't hope to be half as good as these folks (having not a dime invested in the bike so willing to push the envelope helps too!)

 

[Skysix]

There is a youtube out there of some siren tests - the electronic sirens currently used are only effectively audible (in time to hear and avoid) inside a vehicle with closed windows (and no stereo) at about 35mph IIRC. Simple physics. The air being pushed into the speaker cone (ands compressed) by the vehicles motion starts to overcome the vibrating air it is trying to push out. So above that an actual airhorn (not just a tone selection on the siren) is needed. In some rural areas 2-tone semi-truck style airhorns are used with an onboard air tank and compressor.

My personal choice would be a 5 trumpet train horn.....

 

[mariomike]

A friend is a hall Captain of our local volunteer fire service. He caught one of his guys running full siren in the middle of the night down some rural road saying 'if I gotta be awake, so do they'. It cost him several months of calls.

I think you feel the same way as me on this -

No. Absolutely no indiscriminate use of the siren. Especially after dark. The lights are bright enough. Very unprofessional. Big no-no. Embarrassing to the service. Being "siren happy" was very frowned upon by my generation. Trying to get along with the community. Not pee them off.

Having said all that, you're expected to make decent time on any 9-1-1 call. Which in Toronto traffic, isn't always easy. Because, to the Call Originator, it IS an emergency. So, you do the best you can under the circumstances.

Besides, on Adam-12, wasn't one supposed to be a rookie?

Yeah. For 7 years!

If you are into motorcycles

 

[KevinB]

There is a youtube out there of some siren tests - the electronic sirens currently used are only effectively audible (in time to hear and avoid) inside a vehicle with closed windows (and no stereo) at about 35mph IIRC. Simple physics. The air being pushed into the speaker cone (ands compressed) by the vehicles motion starts to overcome the vibrating air it is trying to push out. So above that an actual airhorn (not just a tone selection on the siren) is needed. In some rural areas 2-tone semi-truck style airhorns are used with an onboard air tank and compressor.

My personal choice would be a 5 trumpet train horn.....

A lot of new LE vehicles have air horns now as well, smaller ones, but can still put out a LARGE sound that you’d think it was a train rolling in.

Down here most states have specifics about LE (not sure about Fire or EMS) and road rules for responding outside of traffic norms.
Most that I am familiar with give great latitude to the responding officer’s judgment, obviously a traffic accident will get a different response than an active shooter etc.

Around 10 years ago, I drove around 125mph weaving around in a Chevy Tahoe to get to a school where a methhead had shown up with a machete and claimed he wanted to kill kids and cops.
Turned out he really just wanted to go back to jail, as when I exited with my carbine he dropped the machete and had his hands about touching the stars.
I had almost driven into the school, and the rubber didn’t come off the entrance way or the steps for several months —- no one cared though.

 

[mariomike]

Any time an emergency vehicle driver dies in a traffic accident is, of course, a tragedy.

The fatality statistics of "occupants", "pedestrians", and "passengers" - about 89% of emergency vehicle fatalities - are also of interest.

I think driver education is the key.

The majority of these deaths were occupants of non-emergency vehicles (56%). Deaths among pedestrians accounted for another 25%, while emergency vehicle drivers represented 11% and emergency vehicle passengers accounted for about 5% of the deaths.

 

[lenaitch]

There is a youtube out there of some siren tests - the electronic sirens currently used are only effectively audible (in time to hear and avoid) inside a vehicle with closed windows (and no stereo) at about 35mph IIRC. Simple physics. The air being pushed into the speaker cone (ands compressed) by the vehicles motion starts to overcome the vibrating air it is trying to push out. So above that an actual airhorn (not just a tone selection on the siren) is needed. In some rural areas 2-tone semi-truck style airhorns are used with an onboard air tank and compressor.

My personal choice would be a 5 trumpet train horn.....

Federal Signal developed the 'Rumbler' siren a number of years ago. It is a low frequency adjunct to a typical electronic siren that produces a sound that is as much felt as heard. I haven't heard of a Canadian agency using them.

The conflict between pushing sound out into oncoming air is a constant for any moving vehicle; it's a matter of which wins. With police and ambulance vehicles, the standard is to mount the speaker(s) at or behind the grill because mounting on the roof was creating too much noice in the cab (it is a workplace and workplace rules apply). The electronic 'air horn' tone is ok, but no substitute for a real one but, as you say, you need a source of compressed air. Nothing beats the blast of a real air horn on a fire truck and I notice some fire departments have gone back to mechanical sirens as well. They're really the only ones who have the space and electrical capacity - some of the larger ones draw upwards of 100amp DC. I understand some jurisdictions in the US have banned them.

The Euro-style two-tone siren is gaining some popularity in some urban jurisdictions when noise pollution is a hot topic and there are a lot of sound reflective surfaces. I remember when Metro Toronto PS went to two-tone horns. It didn't really work; they just cheaped out and put a controller on the regular car horns.

A lot of new LE vehicles have air horns now as well, smaller ones, but can still put out a LARGE sound that you’d think it was a train rolling in.

Down here most states have specifics about LE (not sure about Fire or EMS) and road rules for responding outside of traffic norms.
Most that I am familiar with give great latitude to the responding officer’s judgment, obviously a traffic accident will get a different response than an active shooter etc.

Around 10 years ago, I drove around 125mph weaving around in a Chevy Tahoe to get to a school where a methhead had shown up with a machete and claimed he wanted to kill kids and cops.
Turned out he really just wanted to go back to jail, as when I exited with my carbine he dropped the machete and had his hands about touching the stars.
I had almost driven into the school, and the rubber didn’t come off the entrance way or the steps for several months —- no one cared though.

In Ontario, the only specific 'rules of the road' exemptions for emergency vehicles, with equipment operating - are speed limits and signalized intersections (may proceed on red after stopping). No exemptions for volunteer first responders.

In Missouri (and possibly other states), a tow truck can display red & blue lights and use a siren when responding to 'an emergency'.
I can't imagine.

 

[mariomike]

In Missouri (and possibly other states), a tow truck can display red & blue lights and use a siren when responding to 'an emergency'.
I can't imagine.

I can. I subscribe to Ron Pratt's channel out of Scott City, MO.

https://www.youtube.com/@RonPratt

Ron runs "Code", as he calls it, lots of times.

The tow truck operators in Toronto must have run Code in their own way too, because they always got there before we did.

 

[KevinB]

In Ontario, the only specific 'rules of the road' exemptions for emergency vehicles, with equipment operating - are speed limits and signalized intersections (may proceed on red after stopping).

Interesting, most language I have seen down here is "may proceed if safe to do so", which is pushing the liability back on the officer responding, but also allows one to balance greater good for Public Safety between the incident one is responding to, versus the danger to public and officer on the way there.
So usually a rolling "stop" if traffic is around but clear, and if visibly clear not even slowing down.
They had to amend the ruling about high speed pursuits and driving for Unmarked vehicles, as nearly all the ERT Tahoe and Suburbans are unmarked - the only marked ERT vehicles I know in VA at the State Police Bearcats - and you aren't going to do any pursuits in them, at 70mph they get way to ungainly even on the Highway.

In Missouri (and possibly other states), a tow truck can display red & blue lights and use a siren when responding to 'an emergency'.
I can't imagine.

That is insane IMHO, in VA Tow Trucks have orange caution lights but have no exemptions.
Volunteer Fire (and Rescue Squad) get a Green Light (IIRC - its been a while since I have seen one, and haven't carried a badge in 4 years) they have exemptions as well -- We do have a lot of Fire Departments, and Rescue Services that are heavily manned by Volunteers.
TBTH I really don't know what the Rescue Squads are - (I think it to be a mixed FIRE/EMS group), I see their stations a lot in more rural areas of the State.

One of my biggest Pet Peeves is the color of the lights used across the Different States (and Provinces) for Emergency Vehicles.
I really wish that there could be one identifiable standard for LE, one for Fire, and one for EMS.
So you don't have some states SnowPlows running Blue, and have folks pulling over thinking it's a Police vehicle etc..