Posted by "Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com> on Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:02:42 -0700
Its funny, back in the bad old days when I was infantry I did a mortor
course 81 mm. I think that what I remeber most is how heavy everything
is, the baseplate, tube and of course the ammunition. Not the weight from
the manual, but how incredibly heavy it feels when you are humping it.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gow
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> I expect Mike will jump on your head, Ian, for mentioning "mortar" and
> "Artillery" in the same sentence, let alone paragraph.
>
> Again, I‘m not sure that there is any similarity between arty and morars
in
> a Bn fire plan, either...one‘s an internal asset, the other is more an
> implied asset "attachment", as in, "given we have nothing better to do,
we
> may be available to support you", in real life, they maneuver, re-store,
dig
> in new surroundings, etc....so I‘m missing your point...
>
> And, of course, yeah, the base plate is a heavy SOB. Just the same as the
> GPMG was heavy, the Carl G was heavy, the 106 was heavy, and yet we got to
> carry each and every one of them...the base plate is heavy only until you
> consider the astonishing rate of fire of the weapon, and the subsequent
> weight of ammo the gun numbers hump into the pit....likewise my
> commiserations to the Gunners on the Web this is not a case of smoothly
> taking in from a convenient tailgate to the breech...did a number of ex‘s
of
> moving 84mm ammo 8 km to a firing point and am entirely familiar with just
> how heavy that crap can be, carried on one‘s back....
>
> Makes hiting the target all that more important!!!
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
>
>
> > Never said or thought the 4.2 was still aroundt. My comment about the
4.2
> > inch was more to do with the occasional similarity IN USE between the
> > howitzer and the mortar. It would seem that the CCRA must have involved
hy
> > mortars as part of his fire plan. I took a few days trg on the 81mm
mortar
> > from the PPs about 1960, just enough to know that one doesn‘t want to
> carry
> > around that base plate very far, in fact one person probably couldn‘t do
> it.
> > Weight anyone?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Gow
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> >
> >
> > > The 60‘s still in service, Ian...
> > >
> > > The 4.2 is long gone, the heavy is the 81mm, "Warsaw Pact" types may
> > > continue the use of the 120 mm...not sure about that
> > >
> > > John
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ian Edwards"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> > >
> > >
> > > > Wrong war.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Ian McGregor
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:21 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Was the book "Surviving Trench Warfare, Technology and the
Canadian
> > > Corps,
> > > > > 1919-1918" by Bill Rawling?
> > > > >
> > > > > I learned a lot from that book. Specifically, the first book you
> read
> > > on
> > > > a
> > > > > major conflict should NOT be one which focuses on the contribution
> of
> > a
> > > > > small force in the big scheme of things especially if you have
> never
> > > had
> > > > > any education on the history of the conflict. The above book was
> > > > > infinitely easier to follow the second time around after having
> read
> > > AJP
> > > > > Taylor‘s The First World War.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian McGregor
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Ian Edwards"
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:44 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, interesting/worthy topic. I read recently but can‘t recall
> > > > details
> > > > > > that infantry 4.2 inch mortars were employed as integral part of
> the
> > > > large
> > > > > > arty barrages used by First Canadian Army during the closing
> battles
> > > of
> > > > > WW2
> > > > > > in Germany/Holland.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From:
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:46 AM
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Finally, a topic worth following - infantry mortars. As long
> > > > > > > as we stay away from superfluous comparisons between mortarmen
> > > > > > > and artillerymen, it is worth exploring what the Army is doing
> > > > > > > right and wrong with mortars. I‘d be happy to jump on this
> > > > > > > one once I get home and clean up ten weeks of dust.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > travelling correspondent now at an internet cafe in London
> > Ontario
> > > > > > > - back in ‘Slackers‘ by the end of the month
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Original Message ---
> > > > > > > "Joan O. Arc" Wrote on
> > > > > > > Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:55:02 -0000
> > > > > > > ------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Mason. Everything I wanted to know about mortars but
was
> > > > > > > afraid to
> > > > > > > ask. Am *not* being sarcastic - the depths of my ignorance
are
> > > > > > > shocking as
> > > > > > > you perhaps have figured out by now!.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They sound kinda cool - like great big spitball machines, or
> > > > > > > something.
> > > > > > > Please - Hold the derisive laughter - and posts - to a
minimum,
> > > > > > > if you
> > > > > > > can!.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Glad to know there‘s a Private or two on the list BTW. Since
> > > > > > > no one ever
> > > > > > > mentions them, I was starting to think they were mythical
> > beasts...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Joan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > > > > From: "Mason"
> > > > > > > Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: 60 mm trench
> > > > > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The 60mm he is referring to has to do with the bore of the
> motar,
> > > > > > > I know how
> > > > > > > you could get confused though... he didn‘t mean that the
> > dimensions
> > > > > > > of the
> > > > > > > trench were 60 mm. I thought the wording could be a little
> > > misleading
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The 60 mm mortar is a weapon used in the infantry to hurl
> > explosive
> > > > > > > projectiles a moderate distance ahead of the the body of
> infantry.
> > > > > > > It‘s
> > > > > > > basically a tube 60 mm wide with a firing mechanism at the
> > > > > > > bottom, which
> > > > > > > when a mortar round is dropped in fires a charge that sends
the
> > > > > > > projectile
> > > > > > > out and hopefully onto the enemy. The round takes a high
> > > trajectory
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > weapon is normally fired pointed at an angle somewhere between
> > > > > > > 45 and 80 ish
> > > > > > > degrees. That‘s all I really know about the mortar... some
> > > > > > > of it could be
> > > > > > > wrong but it gives you the basic idea in case you wanted to
> > know...
> > > > > > > I‘d ask
> > > > > > > one of the more experienced soldiers on the list if you want
> > > > > > > to know more.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Apparently one can dig a trench to accomodate the mortar and
> > > > > > > the firer, but
> > > > > > > I don‘t know anything about that... **** , I‘m only a Private!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hope that helped a little Joan!
> > > > > > > Fraser
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> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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