Internal Military Report Blames Botched Shooter Drill On Poor Organization

[Harris]

Internal military report blames botched shooter drill on poor organization

An internal report blames a lack of communication for a debacle on a Canadian Armed Forces base last fall, when masked men taking part in active-shooter drill fired blanks at civil servants who didn’t know it was a training exercise.

www.ctvnews.ca

I wonder if anyone will actually be held to account. I smell civil suits against the crown.

 

[dapaterson]

202 Workshop is an ADM Mat unit, not a 2 Div unit, so this can be blamed on NDHQ

 

[brihard]

Good God. This could easily have generated a civilian police response and gotten someone killed.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Internal military report blames botched shooter drill on poor organization

An internal report blames a lack of communication for a debacle on a Canadian Armed Forces base last fall, when masked men taking part in active-shooter drill fired blanks at civil servants who didn’t know it was a training exercise.

www.ctvnews.ca

I wonder if anyone will actually be held to account. I smell civil suits against the crown.

I'll just assume that this has 'lawsuit' written all over it...


Winger said a racialized person was physically assaulted and dragged throughout the workshop and “really, really extensively traumatized.”

“They tore his overalls and they pulled out his wallet, went through his personal papers in his wallet, spread it out on the floor,” she said. ”They ripped his clothes, had him remove his work boots and then they dragged him outside … and then told him that he had to sit outside in the winter — no shoes on, no coat.”

 

[Kilted]

Good God. This could easily have generated a civilian police response and gotten someone killed.

Local police likely would have been informed ahead of time, or at least they should have been.

 

[brihard]

Local police likely would have been informed ahead of time, or at least they should have been.

And if they got several calls in quick succession from civilians saying there‘a an active shooter, that could easily still go wrong.

It’s been a while now since I’ve done it much, but I’m an active shooter instructor; it’s a further course on top of our use of force instructor qualification, which is required for scenario based training. A crystal clear delineation between who is involved in a training exercise and who isn’t is essential for training and public safety. A sanitized and strictly controlled training area is as well.

An innocent bystander got falsely and, it sounds like to an extent, violently arrested by police. He didn’t know it was training. The fact that that was able to happen at all means there was insufficient supervision by training staff. Going hands on with an unaware bystander should have been an immediate safety stop.

If the civilians in the training area didn’t know it was an exercise, then they had no way to initiate a safety stop if something unsafe happened. Or to even know that they could.

Probably a few of the unwitting participants in the training area thought for at least a few seconds that they might not be making it home to their families that day.

This is the height of incompetence, and whatever stupid fuck approved and was responsible for this should be fired from whatever role put them in a position to do this. Anyone from the training cadre who were part of going ahead with this exercise should no longer be trusted to supervise or deliver training outside of maximum supervision and control. Everyone down to the lowest level should have seen how badly flawed this was, but no, some idiots probably thought it would be cool.

Absolute amateur hour.

 

[childs56]

Similar to a certain excercise on a certain naval air station more then a few years ago where a group of well armed men in a white van performed a snatch and grab of the Admiral selects assistant.
Hours later we errr I mean the white van was pulled over by the local Police with firearms drawn. Once it was all explained we all had a great laugh and showed them all our weapons we had. Told them we were about to make lots of explosions and have lots of gun fire. They said have a great night,they would let their boss know what we were doing.

They had a notice of the excercise but not the full extent of it.

 

[OldSolduer]

The “good idea” fairy. Again.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

10/10 for surprise!

 

[Maxman1]

The “good idea” fairy. Again.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

10/10 for BFA artistry!

 

[daftandbarmy]

I saw that movie!

 

[Haggis]

And if they got several calls in quick succession from civilians saying there‘a an active shooter, that could easily still go wrong.

It’s been a while now since I’ve done it much, but I’m an active shooter instructor; it’s a further course on top of our use of force instructor qualification, which is required for scenario based training. A crystal clear delineation between who is involved in a training exercise and who isn’t is essential for training and public safety. A sanitized and strictly controlled training area is as well.

An innocent bystander got falsely and, it sounds like to an extent, violently arrested by police. He didn’t know it was training. The fact that that was able to happen at all means there was insufficient supervision by training staff. Going hands on with an unaware bystander should have been an immediate safety stop.

If the civilians in the training area didn’t know it was an exercise, then they had no way to initiate a safety stop if something unsafe happened. Or to even know that they could.

Probably a few of the unwitting participants in the training area thought for at least a few seconds that they might not be making it home to their families that day.

This is the height of incompetence, and whatever stupid fuck approved and was responsible for this should be fired from whatever role put them in a position to do this. Anyone from the training cadre who were part of going ahead with this exercise should no longer be trusted to supervise or deliver training outside of maximum supervision and control. Everyone down to the lowest level should have seen how badly flawed this was, but no, some idiots probably thought it would be cool.

Absolute amateur hour.

I could not concur enough with this. Having run similar exercises I can see several points of failure in this.

The threat actors are very lucky some uninvolved uninformed employees didn't decide to violently defend themselves per Run, Hide, Fight (Defend).

 

[OldSolduer]

I could not concur enough with this. Having run similar exercises I can see several points of failure in this.

The threat actors are very lucky some uninvolved uninformed employees didn't decide to violently defend themselves per Run, Hide, Fight (Defend).

To further add to this why is the CAF thinking about this? This is a POLICE function.

 

[Haggis]

To further add to this why is the CAF thinking about this? This is a POLICE function.

The MP have the mandate to be first responders to criminal acts on a base and would be much closer and quicker to respond than the civilian police. The CAF members working day-to-day on a base or station would likely be the intended targets of such an attack. Your average soldier, sweeping a hangar floor or sitting in a classroom is unarmed and not trained to respond to such an event. Planning and training for such an event is just good business and we recently did a tabletop exercise where I work for exactly this.

However, this exercise got pooched to the nth degree.

 

[brihard]

The MP have the mandate to be first responders to criminal acts on a base and would be much closer and quicker to respond than the civilian police. The CAF members working day-to-day on a base or station would likely be the intended targets of such an attack. Your average soldier, sweeping a hangar floor or sitting in a classroom is unarmed and not trained to respond to such an event. Planning and training for such an event is just good business and we recently did a tabletop exercise where I work for exactly this.

However, this exercise got pooched to the nth degree.

MPs wouldn’t necessarily get the call first. People are probably calling 911, and getting local civilian police who would dispatch immediately, with their dispatch calling the MPs to alert them and potentially to grant access.

 

[Sprinting Thistle]

Obviously during planning no one read the Lessons Learned report from the 1992 iteration on the Citadelle. I believe the OPI got 20 months.

 

[KevinB]

Obviously during planning no one read the Lessons Learned report from the 1992 iteration on the Citadelle. I believe the OPI got 20 months.

Well they didn’t put a Baton or D cell Maglite up anyone’s anus this time — so some Lessons Learned where followed…

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

MPs wouldn’t necessarily get the call first. People are probably calling 911, and getting local civilian police who would dispatch immediately, with their dispatch calling the MPs to alert them and potentially to grant access.

Seen this play out in real-time once in Kingston. A member committed suicide with a firearm behind the Vimy O Mess. Kingston Police along with their Emergency Response Team responded immediately after receiving 911 calls for a potential active shooter.

MPs were called and assisted with access control and locking down the base. ERT found the deceased member in the woods.

 

[KevinB]

So I'm not honestly seeing the big deal in this.
To get the best results from an objective outlook you really should not have forewarning about a drill/ex being done, other than folks who need to be in the loop from a safety standpoint, which really should just be the Local LE, the Base MP's and other Emergency Service Personnel.

There are AS drills done on facilities with no warning to personnel, and you do not see the same level of angst (okay they do happen down here - so maybe the reality makes folks less likely to bitch about tests.

Some tests don't even inform the local security forces - those can be kind of sketchy if not done for very specific purposes and with a safety system in check to ensure that no Blue on Blue occurs. The days of Demo Dick drinking - sorry I meant risk assessing - away that potential for Red Cell ops are long gone.

Okay the LE misidentified a person - learn from it, move on.