Remains found at Kamloops residential school 'not an isolated incident,' Indigenous experts and leaders warn

[Jarnhamar]

Not all of the money goes to LFN. Much of it goes to the Village.

I believe it, that would be part of the profit business. $120M for "recovery support", still not a single house built. Some people in the village are making bank.

That would be quite a gamble to take. At one (oversimplified) level, if Canada/the Crown "out-lawyered" them way back in the days of the Treaties, what are the odds of Indigenous groups being out-lawyered again for a deal that's better just for Canada/the Crown? Careful what you wish for ...

I would expect nothing less from the government.

Ottawa spent $110K in legal fees fighting First Nations girl over $6K dental procedure

 

[The Bread Guy]

... I would expect nothing less from the government.

Ottawa spent $110K in legal fees fighting First Nations girl over $6K dental procedure

Oh yeah, the old "precedent that must be avoided" thing. There's a line from "Yes, Minister" about that when the Deputy Minister suggested it may not be a good idea linking honours to seeing measurable results from the honours recipients

Agree 1000% on how much fight Club Fed would put up, no matter what colour team jerseys are in Ottawa.

I was suggesting the lawyers on the Indigenous side would be WAY less trusting (and have more tools in their tool belts) than the Chiefs who signed the original Treaties between the 1700's and mid-late 1800's.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I was suggesting the lawyers on the Indigenous side would be WAY less trusting (and have more tools in their tool belts) than the Chiefs who signed the original Treaties between the 1700's and mid-late 1800's.

For sure. I know I sound like a broken record but just imagine how much money lawyers in Canada on both sides have made off of this issue. I bet lawyers would absolutely love cracking open the treaties for a redo.

 

[brihard]

I don't know much about laws. Can decisions made under common law be changed?

The current system isn't working. Many reserves are rife with sexual abuse, domestic abuse, drugs and alcohol abuse, child abuse, fraud, criminal behavior, and so on. Money get's thrown at reserves and intercepted by a few gate keepers who merit it out how they see fit, mostly with no transparency or accounting. Look at Lytton BC. $290 million dollars in recovery funds and not a single house rebuilt yet. First Nation suffering is a self-perpetuating business. Maybe the solution is to just rework those 300 year old contracts from scratch.

Common law precedent in the form of court decisions can usually be overridden with legislation (unles it’s, e.g., a constitutional/Charter decision), or worked around by finding a different, constitutionally compliant way to achieve the same police ends.

Renegotiating the treaties with the various First Nations though? I’m totally unable to speak to that, save for being pretty confident that those are very solidly entrenched in law and can’t just be arbitrarily wiped clean. This is always a fun part of the discussion when groups within various provinces talk about separation.

 

[Maxman1]

This is why one sticks to no tattoos, or standard nautical ones....

Nobody misinterprets a hula girl or "HOLD FAST".

Or

 

[Jarnhamar]

Renegotiating the treaties with the various First Nations though? I’m totally unable to speak to that, save for being pretty confident that those are very solidly entrenched in law and can’t just be arbitrarily wiped clean.

Yeah it's really a throw away COA.

It's just sad. Short of a Star Trek post-armageddon style decision for change I don't see First Nations lives improving in the next 300 years. Tempus fugit.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yeah it's really a throw away COA.

It's just sad. Short of a Star Trek post-armageddon style decision for change I don't see First Nations lives improving in the next 300 years. Tempus fugit.

I do. In the 20 years I spent working with FN in BC and Yukon mainly, I have seen a steady climb in the abilty of the Bands to improve life. It varies a lot from band to band. Some are still held back by internal bickering, some suffer from a location that limits what they can do.
In consultations I would always ask; "Where do you want to be in 20 years?" That often stumped them as many didn't think in concrete terms beyond today. Those that did generally saw steady improvement. One meeting I asked about recreational boating for the band, they replied "Oh we don't do that" and II said but they will when the money from the project starts flowing in. The band council was shocked that I saw a good future for them, they get wrapped up in the victim story to much sometimes.
The successful bands are creating the path and the leaders of the future who aren't interested in the victim game and that will pull the other bands forward.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Common law precedent in the form of court decisions can usually be overridden with legislation (unles it’s, e.g., a constitutional/Charter decision), or worked around by finding a different, constitutionally compliant way to achieve the same police ends.

Renegotiating the treaties with the various First Nations though? I’m totally unable to speak to that, save for being pretty confident that those are very solidly entrenched in law and can’t just be arbitrarily wiped clean. This is always a fun part of the discussion when groups within various provinces talk about separation.

One of the key issues in BC is that there are very few treaties, largely as a result of BC being comprehensively settled hundreds of years after eastern North America, and over 200 separate First Nations.

And, as with other similar human organizations, no two First Nations are the same with respect to their interests, organizational structures, and internal capacity.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... as with other similar human organizations, no two First Nations are the same with respect to their interests, organizational structures, and internal capacity.

And that'll affect how different places will have their own mileage vary re: trying for a new treaty - not to mention differential access to resources to take advantage of.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Taking the Truth out of Truth and Reconciliation … no bodies of children have ever been found at Kamloops Residential School, but it’s racist for lawyers to insist on truth and accuracy about that.*

Jamie Sarkonak: B.C. lawyers shouldn't face residential school 'denialism' accusations for telling the truth

No 'buried children' have been found at the Kamloops residential school, and it's not racist for B.C.'s mandatory training course to say so

nationalpost.com

 

[daftandbarmy]

Taking the Truth out of Truth and Reconciliation … no bodies of children have ever been found at Kamloops Residential School, but it’s racist for lawyers to insist on truth and accuracy about that.*

Jamie Sarkonak: B.C. lawyers shouldn't face residential school 'denialism' accusations for telling the truth

No 'buried children' have been found at the Kamloops residential school, and it's not racist for B.C.'s mandatory training course to say so

nationalpost.com

Meanwhile, the Wiki article seems to have a pretty good summary of the situation that includes information I haven't seen elsewhere...

Canadian Indian residential school gravesites - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kilted]

Has there every been any plans to do an actual excavation at that location or any of the others?

 

[suffolkowner]

Has there every been any plans to do an actual excavation at that location or any of the others?

I thought there had been a couple excavations and nothing found. Interesting enough as what was the anomaly? In some cases maybe old orchards? Easy enough to determine though. A lack of bodies seems like as much of an indictment to me. 1900's there had to have been some deaths.

On money there is quite a bit of it flowing in Ontario right now depending on how much native you are 60, 90, 120 thousand plus

 

[Maxman1]

There was an excavation at a hospital for tuberculosis, which found nothing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/camsell-hospital-excavation-ends-1.6222381

 

[Colin Parkinson]

There was a cemetery in the area, the size and location of the graves were lost. As I understand it, the band had custody of that cemetery and did nothing to maintain it.
Pre-contact grave rituals for most FN's was to do open or elevated grave sites, with some doing elevated box burials. Post contact, most shifted to in-ground burials. During the Site C review, there was a potentiel gravesite, right where the new Halfway River bridge abutment would land. The area was a known trading route with a number of confirmed gravesites both pre and post-contact. Two bands fought over the ownership of the gravesite and that was a nasty and bitter debate. Speaking to the archaeologist for the file, the challenge in the region is that thanks to the acidic soils, very little remains are normally found in graves, unless metal was present. No one wanted to dig it up, in case there was nothing there.

 

[Good2Golf]

Perhaps it’s easier to hop on a surfboard and opine that Canada must do better, than to actually investigate fully the risk there was no malevolence to speak of…

 

[OldSolduer]

This whole line of residential school burials reminds me of the "Just Believe Her" movement. Just go along with whatever they say.....and be called racist or mysoginist for wanting a full and fair investigation.