USS John S McCain captain relieved
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Oldgateboatdriver
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Well, it may surprise many, but in the RCN, we are not paid to shoot hand held weapons. We are paid to fire big guns, big torpedoes and big missiles. The amount of time dedicated to small arms training before force protection became a thing was a few hours of refresher training before going to the range for the annual qualification shoot - which in those days, you could hardly fail if you were capable of hitting the side of a barn with a shotgun at 5 paces. 
The most used small arm on a warship is the gunline gun, used to pass the light messenger in a RAS.
The American Naval Officer is a weird animal: On one of their own ship, with few or only one foreign officer embedded for a while, they are as happy and humourous as the next guy. But put them in a situation where they interact with "allies" or foreign navies in a group setting and they are so serious you would believe that any mistake in their every word is going to affect the coming of the end of the world, even if its just deciding on which item to pick from the lunch menu.
The most used small arm on a warship is the gunline gun, used to pass the light messenger in a RAS.
The American Naval Officer is a weird animal: On one of their own ship, with few or only one foreign officer embedded for a while, they are as happy and humourous as the next guy. But put them in a situation where they interact with "allies" or foreign navies in a group setting and they are so serious you would believe that any mistake in their every word is going to affect the coming of the end of the world, even if its just deciding on which item to pick from the lunch menu.
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Navy is heavy on the whole seamanship business... light on the whole warfighting business.#bufferfail or just the whole darn Navy?
If we wanted Merchant Mariners, we'd ask the CCG to do it for us
Well, it may surprise many, but in the RCN, we are not paid to shoot hand held weapons. We are paid to fire big guns, big torpedoes and big missiles. The amount of time dedicated to small arms training before force protection became a thing was a few hours of refresher training before going to the range for the annual qualification shoot - which in those days, you could hardly fail if you were capable of hitting the side of a barn with a shotgun at 5 paces.
The most used small arm on a warship is the gunline gun, used to pass the light messenger in a RAS.
Nobody expects the average Seaman to be John Wick with a firearm. The department responsible for their care and use though... they absolutely should be competent and capable.
Your tune would change if you had an IRGC-N gunboat within a baseballs throw of your bridge wing.
Funny how the Army has big guns in the Artillery but they still do proper weapons training.
The RCN probably would be well served to create their own small unit of men-at-arms and amalgamate the hodge-podge collection of pseudo-organizations it currently has.
FDU, NTOG, NST, etc....
Sea Battalion (Germany) - Wikipedia
Clearance Diving Branch (RAN) - Wikipedia
Fusiliers marins - Wikipedia
43 Commando Fleet Protection Group Royal Marines - Wikipedia
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daftandbarmy
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I mean the less cult-y of the globally well-known “Marine Corps”.You mean the Confederation of Private Armies in the Royal Navy?
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It's not much better on maintenance of core navy things either. Every time we've done a survey on pretty much every ship for years a large amount of FF cylinders are under pressure, batteries done in the HUDs, etc and that's a core RCN FF capability that everyone should be able to do the basics of competently.Well, it may surprise many, but in the RCN, we are not paid to shoot hand held weapons. We are paid to fire big guns, big torpedoes and big missiles. The amount of time dedicated to small arms training before force protection became a thing was a few hours of refresher training before going to the range for the annual qualification shoot - which in those days, you could hardly fail if you were capable of hitting the side of a barn with a shotgun at 5 paces.
The most used small arm on a warship is the gunline gun, used to pass the light messenger in a RAS
Lots of examples in most systems like that as soon as you poke at it a bit (just don't poke the hull too hard, sometimes you'll poke through).
Halifax Tar
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, your PWT score should count as much as your personal fitness when it comes to PARs.
daftandbarmy
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So if we use the current baseline, it'll still count for 0 points on SCRITs.
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Some of the SCRIT items scores were pretty weird; things like getting extra points if you were ever an instructor (which isn't obvious from a lot of positions names and what the job actually is), which goes back farther than the PERs/PARs you have in front of you. With the new PAR format, rely much more heavily on the single lines comments for actual detail, and I think we over rely on someone specifically calling out leadership when you have a tweet worth to get in a standard format 'comment' that may not actually allow you to do much.
If PWTs would count though, you also need to give people time to do weapons handling with competent instructors and plenty of practice rounds; that's pretty hard to come by or make time for, especially for some trades where all time alongside is busy trying to get the ship fixed and resupplied. Got pretty decent instructions in St Jean and also in the NCR, as all of them had actual combat experience, but didn't get the same kind of expertise in the coastal ranges. When we had both sneaky squirrels embarked our boarding party and FP folks as well as embarked NTOG team learned a tonne from them.
If I'm personnally shooting at someone, something has gone really wrong anyway, but don't think my time on the range has prepared me for anything other than punching some holes in paper, and not accidentally shooting myself or others in the process.
daftandbarmy
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RCN bases are conveniently co-located with Army units, staffed with trained small arms instructors and staff who can run ranges, and who run various range exercises for their own units every year.
Just sayin'
FSTO
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Priorities. Getting time away from all the other duties, requirements, and BS is the issue regarding getting proficient with small arms. Maybe if we had the 1500 sailors that we don’t currently have there would be time to get to the range.RCN bases are conveniently co-located with Army units, staffed with trained small arms instructors and staff who can run ranges, and who run various range exercises for their own units every year.
Just sayin'
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Boatswains are also trained, and according to the ones I was working with recently, they have finally updated the weapons handling training to match modern practices.RCN bases are conveniently co-located with Army units, staffed with trained small arms instructors and staff who can run ranges, and who run various range exercises for their own units every year.
Just sayin'
A wise friend of mine once mentioned there are two types of Boatswains, "Rope" bos'ns that love all things "pusser" and seamanship, and "Gun" bos'ns, that tend to lean more toward NBP, NTOG, etc... I suspect the "Rope" bos'ns are on the decline among the newer generation.
daftandbarmy
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I think some are former Army folks, too ...
Maxman1
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I'm sure he waned to give him the Shawinigan Handshake for that.It is incredibly funny and one for the ages. Almost as good as a pie in the face
OldSolduer
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I love that - that little bastard deserved it and I am not talking about Chretien.I'm sure he waned to give him the Shawinigan Handshake for that.
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The standard of skill in the RCN for small arms handling has been generally poor, and many of the Bosun trade are too opinionated to see the flaws they make.
I was told once on the range that when I was done shooting, to make the weapon safe, I needed to close the ejection port cover, and set the rifle down. The bolt was still locked to the rear on an empty magazine.
I might have deliberately pressed the rifle into a small stone to trip the bolt catch and cause the bolt to go forward...resulting in Bosuns yelling at me for a minute as I did something 'unsafe'. Pointing out the flaw in their weapons handling drills was not helpful.
The old shooting team used to provide a means of injecting interested, qualified, and well trained individuals throughout the fleet, but the RCN did away with that too.
I was told once on the range that when I was done shooting, to make the weapon safe, I needed to close the ejection port cover, and set the rifle down. The bolt was still locked to the rear on an empty magazine.
I might have deliberately pressed the rifle into a small stone to trip the bolt catch and cause the bolt to go forward...resulting in Bosuns yelling at me for a minute as I did something 'unsafe'. Pointing out the flaw in their weapons handling drills was not helpful.
The old shooting team used to provide a means of injecting interested, qualified, and well trained individuals throughout the fleet, but the RCN did away with that too.
Halifax Tar
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I think the teaching of marksmanship and weapons handling is a function we need to take away from a specific trade and instead seek out those in our ranks with true competency and knowledge. Offer its as an ATR with a selection process.
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But in essence, aren’t you making it into a specific trade?
That sort of stuff needs frequent practice and if the trade isn’t willing to give up the time to let people do so, then their skills atrophy. I’m not sure how the Naval Boarding Party does it but are you thinking of that model?
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