CDS General Eyre announces retirement

[dimsum]

As far as charging for parking. My employer now classifies parking as a taxable benefit, but at GTA rates. So it does happen in civilian world as well. A lot of the people working for my agency weren't exactly happy when that came out.

Geez - don’t give people ideas!

 

[Good2Golf]

Back when Class BA was a thing?

Not B(A), but a full B term (3yrs in one case I saw).

 

[markppcli]

You seem to be under the impression that nobody in Ottawa is ever in the office, and that in-person meetings/briefings aren't occurring. That is not the case, and has not been the case since Ontario loosened it's COVID restrictions back in 2021.

Glad to hear it, I was basing that off what the previous commenter had said.

What is happening is people are working a day or two from home to catch up on the work that does not require "working with and leading humans". All the policy and other admin that needs to happen, but doesn't require chatting with others, or the chat needs to be via email anyway because the other person is a civil servant that isn't in the office that day.


You're right, by virtue of a posting message all people in the NCR automatically become "lesser" CAF members. Thankfully we have our superiors posted elsewhere to remind us that we aren't dedicated enough... I can't wait until I become a superior CAF member again by getting posted out of the NCR.

Where did I say this?

What I said was that expecting to work the same way that civilian civil servants does probably says a lot about how a service member, I never said you, views their actual role.


You chose to go on a tangent about shift workers and technicians. I think that’s been roundly squashed. What is true of those people is that none of them have the option to take a shift from home. They put in their uniforms and go to work.

 

[mariomike]

How To Tell If You Work For A Sociopath Or Psychopath

Not sure. We hardly ever saw him.

 

[Furniture]

Where did I say this?

What I said was that expecting to work the same way that civilian civil servants does probably says a lot about how a service member, I never said you, views their actual role.

You implied that those who enjoy a hybrid work schedule were somehow less dedicated to the CAF, and were more civil servants. I'm curious what NCR experience you have to come to that conclusion?

You chose to go on a tangent about shift workers and technicians. I think that’s been roundly squashed. What is true of those people is that none of them have the option to take a shift from home. They put in their uniforms and go to work.

It's not a tangent, if you'd read what I wrote you'd see that I was highlighting that all jobs have different "hardships", and different "perks". I used shiftwork as an example of a hardship the troops in the cbt arms don't often experience.

The NCR has hardships not shared by those in other bases, and has some perks that aren't shared by other bases. Pretending that a LCdr at ADM(Mat) sitting at a shared desk in the NCR makes Pte Bloggins at 1 RCR feel better about the leadership "getting him" is silliness.

 

[markppcli]

You implied that those who enjoy a hybrid work schedule were somehow less dedicated to the CAF, and were more civil servants. I'm curious what NCR experience you have to come to that conclusion?

Well obviously I have no experience in the NCR, nor will I likely ever. For which I am deeply thankful as I don’t think I’d financially survive. I admit I probably came off to strong in my wording.

It's not a tangent, if you'd read what I wrote you'd see that I was highlighting that all jobs have different "hardships", and different "perks". I used shiftwork as an example of a hardship the troops in the cbt arms don't often experience.

You’re right no one in the combat arms has ever worked nights. My comment was that the entire CAF is going to work, perks exist I agree I never argued otherwise. I probably over read the original comment.

The NCR has hardships not shared by those in other bases, and has some perks that aren't shared by other bases. Pretending that a LCdr at ADM(Mat) sitting at a shared desk in the NCR makes Pte Bloggins at 1 RCR feel better about the leadership "getting him" is silliness.

I think there’s a reality gap between the CAF writ large and Ottawa that manifests itself in policies. We had an email before Christmas that all vehicle inspections were to be uploaded in DRMIS for example, we have 5 computes in the battery so figure that one out. We have an overall increase in the amount of computer time everyone needs, great if you have a desk, sub optimal if you’re in a field unit. I realize those as hyper specific example but I think they speak to that gap. I realize that doesn’t get solved by going to work, but it helps. I also realize I’m opening myself up to argument that “what should we do meetings from trenches to get it?” And I hope we can avoid that kind of silliness.

I will not change my mind that everyone should be going into work, and likely you won’t change your mind either. I shouldn’t have worded what I said in a way that implied a lack of commitment, and for that I apologize.

 

[dimsum]

I think there’s a reality gap between the CAF writ large and Ottawa that manifests itself in policies. We had an email before Christmas that all vehicle inspections were to be uploaded in DRMIS for example, we have 5 computes in the battery so figure that one out. We have an overall increase in the amount of computer time everyone needs, great if you have a desk, sub optimal if you’re in a field unit. I realize those as hyper specific example but I think they speak to that gap. I realize that doesn’t get solved by going to work, but it helps. I also realize I’m opening myself up to argument that “what should we do meetings from trenches to get it?” And I hope we can avoid that kind of silliness.

Forgetting the financial considerations for a bit, that’s why I think that if at all possible, people should be posted to Ottawa or at least an HQ higher than a Base/Wing. It’s a different world because your focus is on different levels (either operational or strategic) that I didn’t see at the unit.

It was a bit eye-opening as to how the CAF, and allies, work.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I think there’s a reality gap between the CAF writ large and Ottawa that manifests itself in policies.

What I find interesting is that, with very few exceptions, Reg F CAF pers do not ask to be posted to the NCR. Moreover, almost all of them come from units.

I spent a fair bit of time in Bns. When I worked at Bde, Div, Army, and CJOC level, I didn't suddenly decide that my mission in life was to screw over the troops - actually quite the contrary. The fact that I was likely to return to the field level from most of those positions probably had an influence on that, but I also didn't take (an even bigger) asshole pill because my role changed.

I found that the entrenched NCR staff deep state was mostly populated by those who knew they were not going back to the field, or by career Reservists. This no doubt changed their motivations. I encountered many people who craved access to the back rows of the NDHQ Conference Rooms, to be decision adjacent. Those are the dangerous ones...

Beware the stupid and industrious:

 

[Harris]

Not B(A), but a full B term (3yrs in one case I saw).

Here in 5XX the Permanent Class B posns (as per establishment) are for three years with the option for another three years if your Boss likes your work. At the end of six years the posn must be posted for competition. The Temp Class B's (not on the establishment) range from greater than 12 days to three years (depending on the posn and funding) though typically they are 89 days (Which means the Reservists aren't entitled to benefits).

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think there’s a reality gap between the CAF writ large and Ottawa that manifests itself in policies. We had an email before Christmas that all vehicle inspections were to be uploaded in DRMIS for example, we have 5 computes in the battery so figure that one out. We have an overall increase in the amount of computer time everyone needs, great if you have a desk, sub optimal if you’re in a field unit. I realize those as hyper specific example but I think they speak to that gap. I realize that doesn’t get solved by going to work, but it helps. I also realize I’m opening myself up to argument that “what should we do meetings from trenches to get it?” And I hope we can avoid that kind of silliness.

Examples like this is actually the best reason to have CAF members included in the policy side of things, and why we should actually encourage more remote work so you can get someone parachuted in from a front line unit location to bring that viewpoint in. I don't even mean hybrid; I mean fully remote. I'd love to have someone remote working in from Esquimalt as the folks we have in Halifax are a huge benefit.

We're pretty close to significantly rolling back ODS DRMIS logging requirements officially by providing that LOE impact viewpoint for something that isn't of any real value anyway, which would require something like 60k new DRMIS uploads every year in 12 navy ships alone. That push isn't coming from civilians in the Material/IE side.

FWIW in the team I work with we range from Cdrs to S1s, with EGs and ENGs and everyone has been working remotely pretty successfully for 5 years now. I also don't see why every sailor, aviator or soldier should be back at work if their job allows remote work.

WIth the cost of living increases kicking everyone down it really should be a question of 'why can't this job support hybrid work' and not a top down directive. This is exactly the kind of thing that will further decrease recruitment attractiveness, as there is no reason that a large number of jobs can't be done remotely on a case by case basis. It doesn't even have to be an all/nothing thing; it's very easy to see that some weeks being in the office more makes sense, while others it doesn't (ie 5 days on teams because there is no travel money).

For an organization that specifically pushes innovation,flexibility and change as part of promotion criteria, this is a very backwards approach, and it's not 2018 anymore. On one hand, they want to be able to have companies provide maintenance support and doctors be able to remote surgeries, but on the other hand it's critical a bunch of us are sitting in our desks (that are no longer co-located) talking to people in different time zones on teams or doing emails, so really talking out their asses.

 

[Bearskin]

What is more compelling from a political perspective: the first female CDS or the first indigenous CDS?

The current Commander Canadian Army LGen Paul (A member of the Huron-Wendat First Nation) could move into the CDS seat, while LGen Carignan could move into the VCDS spot.

There will be plenty of other opportunities to appoint a female to be a future CDS, whereas if LGen Paul retires following his current command appointment he is kind of a “one-of” opportunity lost. He is approaching CRA in summer 2026.

Indigenous LGens are a rare bird.

This is all pure speculation on my end.

Cheers.

 

[Haggis]

I found that the entrenched NCR staff deep state was mostly populated by those who knew they were not going back to the field, or by career Reservists. This no doubt changed their motivations. I encountered many people who craved access to the back rows of the NDHQ Conference Rooms, to be decision adjacent. Those are the dangerous ones...

The NCR is a weird mix of PS and CAF. When I first managed a mixed PS/mil team in the ADM (IM) Gp, I was shocked when I was told by my civ employees that I just couldn't let them go early on long weekend Friday without having the Director approve leave for them in advance. I quickly signed up for the "Managing Civilian Human Resources" classes to get my head around that world. Conversely, I had to educate my civ employees that my CAF member were allowed to do PT "on the clock" and required to shoot their PWT and pass their EXPRES test every year to stay employed.

I spent a number of years on Class B and C in the NCR. Running across those "career Reservists" as you call them was quite shocking. I always stayed active with my parent unit when on Class B and C and was floored by attitudes of those Reservists who had totally lost touch with the armoury floor/drill deck during their time in any large HQ and were now making policy which impacted that armoury floor/drill deck.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well you see, if we start charging parking at ARes armouries, we could afford gear to train with, some something reconstitution, something something reg forces fault....

Sadly it would all go into General Revenue.

The Seaforth Association should have never turned over their land to DND and instead of having 39 Brigade HQ beside them, built a highrise and rent it out to provide funds.

 

[GR66]

Examples like this is actually the best reason to have CAF members included in the policy side of things, and why we should actually encourage more remote work so you can get someone parachuted in from a front line unit location to bring that viewpoint in. I don't even mean hybrid; I mean fully remote. I'd love to have someone remote working in from Esquimalt as the folks we have in Halifax are a huge benefit.

We're pretty close to significantly rolling back ODS DRMIS logging requirements officially by providing that LOE impact viewpoint for something that isn't of any real value anyway, which would require something like 60k new DRMIS uploads every year in 12 navy ships alone. That push isn't coming from civilians in the Material/IE side.

FWIW in the team I work with we range from Cdrs to S1s, with EGs and ENGs and everyone has been working remotely pretty successfully for 5 years now. I also don't see why every sailor, aviator or soldier should be back at work if their job allows remote work.

WIth the cost of living increases kicking everyone down it really should be a question of 'why can't this job support hybrid work' and not a top down directive. This is exactly the kind of thing that will further decrease recruitment attractiveness, as there is no reason that a large number of jobs can't be done remotely on a case by case basis. It doesn't even have to be an all/nothing thing; it's very easy to see that some weeks being in the office more makes sense, while others it doesn't (ie 5 days on teams because there is no travel money).

For an organization that specifically pushes innovation,flexibility and change as part of promotion criteria, this is a very backwards approach, and it's not 2018 anymore. On one hand, they want to be able to have companies provide maintenance support and doctors be able to remote surgeries, but on the other hand it's critical a bunch of us are sitting in our desks (that are no longer co-located) talking to people in different time zones on teams or doing emails, so really talking out their asses.

If an NCR tasking can truly be done remotely then why post the member to NCR at all? Have them fulfill the role from their current posting position. Saves a cost move, relocation of spouse and children and keeps the member in touch with the operational units they came from.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I spent a number of years on Class B and C in the NCR. Running across those "career Reservists" as you call them was quite shocking. I always stayed active with my parent unit when on Class B and C and was floored by attitudes of those Reservists who had totally lost touch with the armoury floor/drill deck during their time in any large HQ and were now making policy which impacted that armoury floor/drill deck.

This is a key feature of the ARes CBGs too.

For example, the last time the (been there forever Class B) G3 of a certain CBG was in a unit was in the early 90s.

As a result, the Bde HQ delegates the leadership of alot of complex Bde exercises to the (understaffed) ARes units to lead because Bde staff have no expertise.

 

[Furniture]

If an NCR tasking can truly be done remotely then why post the member to NCR at all? Have them fulfill the role from their current posting position. Saves a cost move, relocation of spouse and children and keeps the member in touch with the operational units they came from.

Can't do that, might raise morale. Forcing people to move to a high cost of living area, to do a thankless, soul crushing HQ job is the CAF way.

 

[Halifax Tar]

What is more compelling from a political perspective: the first female CDS or the first indigenous CDS?

The current Commander Canadian Army LGen Paul (A member of the Huron-Wendat First Nation) could move into the CDS seat, while LGen Carignan could move into the VCDS spot.

There will be plenty of other opportunities to appoint a female to be a future CDS, whereas if LGen Paul retires following his current command appointment he is kind of a “one-of” opportunity lost. He is approaching CRA in summer 2026.

Indigenous LGens are a rare bird.

This is all pure speculation on my end.

Cheers.

I really don't give two shits what the gender, colour or creed is of the next CDS, just find the best person for the job.

 

[Remius]

The NCR is a weird mix of PS and CAF. When I first managed a mixed PS/mil team in the ADM (IM) Gp, I was shocked when I was told by my civ employees that I just couldn't let them go early on long weekend Friday without having the Director approve leave for them in advance. I quickly signed up for the "Managing Civilian Human Resources" classes to get my head around that world. Conversely, I had to educate my civ employees that my CAF member were allowed to do PT "on the clock" and required to shoot their PWT and pass their EXPRES test every year to stay employed.

I spent a number of years on Class B and C in the NCR. Running across those "career Reservists" as you call them was quite shocking. I always stayed active with my parent unit when on Class B and C and was floored by attitudes of those Reservists who had totally lost touch with the armoury floor/drill deck during their time in any large HQ and were now making policy which impacted that armoury floor/drill deck.

Ottawa is full of career class B types. I was like you, I regularly paraded with my unit while on class B to keep skills up, career progression etc. There are Class B Infantry WOs and MWOs that drug dealed to get on career courses and have never even been a section commander, platoon WO or CSM and walk around with that rank and cap badges.

 

[captloadie]

I really don't give two shits what the gender, colour or creed is of the next CDS, just find the best person for the job.

The truth of it is that by the time most of the individuals reach the LGen level, they are all capable of leading the institution (which is what the position is about). So it becomes the other things that are the differentiators. It does become about what the messaging is all about and what the organization needs, not just internally, but externally as well.

Gen Eyre has been a steady hand since he has taken over. He hasn't really had any missteps, has been able to navigate the transitions between MNDs and DMs, and hasn't pushed any 1 agenda above others (which may have upset the Army, but I digress). He was just what was needed at the time he was needed. Which made him the best individual for the job at the time (even though he wasn't the first choice, and might not have achieved the position had others not left the CAF).

I had heard that LGen Paul was already planning his retirement, and not in the running for the position.

 

[Remius]

If an NCR tasking can truly be done remotely then why post the member to NCR at all? Have them fulfill the role from their current posting position. Saves a cost move, relocation of spouse and children and keeps the member in touch with the operational units they came from.

This should be a feature and something to exploit.

Where I am at we have phenomenal young woman working remotely from Toronto. At times she will go to the local detachment to work. What we have found is that even though she works for us in Ottawa she has become a good link on the ground with the folks at that detachment in TO.