Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

My main gripe is that, while we have always been here, in the current geopolitical climate; we can't and shouldn't wait for the first salvo to get our ducks in a row; that's not purely equipment or pers, but also processes, training, recruting, and partnering with industry.

We need to do better and that is a WoG/WoC mission if we are going to be ready when the ball drops. The issue I see is that we as a country have been lulled to sleep by political indifference.

I don't think there has been a political leader in the past 50 years that was frank with our populace about how truly dangerous the world is for Canada; and that has led to the isolationist, insular, and self-serving attitudes amonst the electorate to be front and centre, while foreign policy, defence, and international cooperation get pushed to the sidelines.

Until we have folks truly awakened to the fine mess we find ourselves in, I expect a lot more Ant/Grasshopper dithering to occur as the world burns around us.

 

[FJAG]

My main gripe is that, while we have always been here, in the current geopolitical climate; we can't and shouldn't wait for the first salvo to get our ducks in a row; that's not purely equipment or pers, but also processes, training, recruting, and partnering with industry.

I agree that we shouldn't. It's just my inexpert opinion that we do.

IMHO, we're already at war if you take into effect the cyber attacks which we continuously fend off and when you see the Russian and Chinese and Iranian pressures to extend their domains and economies.

With the exceptions of 1812 and 1866 and possibly 1885, we've always had an option to commit to major conflicts. In all those cases the creating the implements of war and the forces to use them were relatively simple. The vast machine plants that we had could relatively quickly be converted to arms production allowing large hosts to be built fast. Further, the war was far away and relatively contained waiting for us to get there.

IMHO, the biggest failing of our senior military leadership - not the politicians - the military leadership is that we don't even have the strategic plans needed to build a large army as rapidly as possible. They seem to have troubles just building managed readiness programs for the small force of full-timers that we have. We seem to have a penchant for destroying the seed corn skill for everything from viable ATGMs to air defence, took almost twenty years to get a MALE UAV capability off the ground and still can't seem to get it into our heads that we need asymmetric brigades (I promise not to raise the reserve issue this time).

There are so many things that could be done to prepare that don't cost vast sums of money but we're perpetually trapped in dealing with today's problems rather than tomorrow's. And just to make it clear ... today's problems are the very ones our military leadership ignored yesterday.

We suck at this.

 

[MilEME09]

I'm not sure we've ever been in a position where our numbers are so low for people, and of them even less, by a large factor, are really employable on a military mission.

With the exception of prior to WW2 I'm not sure our Navy has ever been in such bad shape. We are going to deploy 2 east coast CPFs this year and this is pretty much all we can muster materially and personnel wise. You should see the trouble I'm having just finding 2 cooks, which I still don't have, so my galley won't collapse during our deployment.

Even back in the end days of the Caddys and steamers we could muster more than this.

The RCN is in a crisis of material and people. And I have to imagine soon our material will start deciding for us what we can actually put to sea. It's time we start looking at what we can get now, what's on offer.

Does the RCN talk to other branches for purple trades? I know a few ARes QL5 qualified cooks who would happily take a job on ship if it meant a deployment and being usefully employed in trade off a base.

 

[Furniture]

Does the RCN talk to other branches for purple trades? I know a few ARes QL5 qualified cooks who would happily take a job on ship if it meant a deployment and being usefully employed in trade off a base.

I heard today that PRes positions on deploying ships have been scaled back to save money... But, if nobody else can go, I'm sure a few army guys would love to be the newest converts. We have nicer hats...

 

[FJAG]

Does the RCN talk to other branches for purple trades? I know a few ARes QL5 qualified cooks who would happily take a job on ship if it meant a deployment and being usefully employed in trade off a base.

My guess is that there's a bit more to being a member of a ship's company than just the cooking skill set. Not sure how they would handle that.

I've always that that the purple trade concept was a bit of a fiction.

 

[MilEME09]

I heard today that PRes positions on deploying ships have been scaled back to save money... But, if nobody else can go, I'm sure a few army guys would love to be the newest converts. We have nicer hats...

Is it really saving money when you end up stealing someone from some where else and end up back filling to the reserves any way?

 

[Furniture]

Is it really saving money when you end up stealing someone from some where else and end up back filling to the reserves any way?

No, but it is saving money when you just make the ship sail short pers, and don't backfill anything.

Also, never underestimate the power of "that's a different pool of money" in decision making. Many people will peserve their rice bowl, even if it leads to greater losses for others.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Does the RCN talk to other branches for purple trades? I know a few ARes QL5 qualified cooks who would happily take a job on ship if it meant a deployment and being usefully employed in trade off a base.

This is something I have been trying to push within the RCN and it never seems to grab traction. The Army is fantastic at looking pan CAF to flesh out its organizations using the augmentee method, and the RCN should be embracing this as well. Sadly we don't, yet.

My guess is that there's a bit more to being a member of a ship's company than just the cooking skill set. Not sure how they would handle that.

I've always that that the purple trade concept was a bit of a fiction.

There is, but we sail with non NETP people all the time as the back log for that course and qualification dictates.

 

[QV]

If all of those people had been tasked to DND support, CSE, Transport Canada, Canadian Space Agency and a multitude of other civil-military capabilities, even Mounties, Border Security, Environment Patrols, SAR, Emergency Response people then I would not be complaining. It would leave the uniformed CAF personnel focused on there primary task as defined by one of your previous CDS.

"We are not the Public Service of Canada. We are not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces and our job is to be able to kill people,"

If I were Poilievre, and were dealt the hand that he has I wouldn't be firing Trudeau's new hires. I would be reassigning them. Billets in Resolute, Cambridge Bay, Whitehorse and Iqaluit sound good for starters.

Good point. There are plenty of positions occupied by CAF personnel that would be more appropriately filled with a public servant. Re-allocation of CAF PYs to the kinds of positions only CAF should fill.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Good point. There are plenty of positions occupied by CAF personnel that would be more appropriately filled with a public servant. Re-allocation of CAF PYs to the kinds of positions only CAF should fill.

These days, there is no shortage of positions. Just shortage of people. No need to reallocate positions…

 

[daftandbarmy]

My guess is that there's a bit more to being a member of a ship's company than just the cooking skill set. Not sure how they would handle that.

I've always that that the purple trade concept was a bit of a fiction.

Indeed...

 

[QV]

These days, there is no shortage of positions. Just shortage of people. No need to reallocate positions…

There are still many CAF doing functions that could be a PS. Move those CAF to operational positions.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Good point. There are plenty of positions occupied by CAF personnel that would be more appropriately filled with a public servant. Re-allocation of CAF PYs to the kinds of positions only CAF should fill.

When you have 49% of the RCCS employed in positions outside the CA, that's a problem. ADM(IM) Could be staffed by Civilians.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There are still many CAF doing functions that could be a PS. Move those CAF to operational positions.

Such as ?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Such as ?

HR, Garrison IT support, RP Ops, non-Operational Logistics Support,

 

[Kirkhill]

This is something I have been trying to push within the RCN and it never seems to grab traction. The Army is fantastic at looking pan CAF to flesh out its organizations using the augmentee method, and the RCN should be embracing this as well. Sadly we don't, yet.

There is, but we sail with non NETP people all the time as the back log for that course and qualification dictates.

Is the Air Det NETP?

 

[Rifleman62]

My grandson deployed on HMCS as an Army PRes after completing NETP. It was a trade specific job. After deployment he CT'd to Army.
Funny, none of his records, nor his pay are in his file which hindered his CT.

 

[Brad Sallows]

What makes people believe that if a position moves from mil to civ, the funding for it won't move also?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Is the Air Det NETP?

Yup. Everyone posted to an HMC Ship is supposed to be NETP qualified.

 

[Halifax Tar]

HR, Garrison IT support, RP Ops, non-Operational Logistics Support,

What is that ? The whole reason for Logistics is to support operational commitments.