Drones, the Air Littoral, and the Looming Irrelevance of the USAF

[dimsum]

I don’t know about the USAF being “irrelevant”, but a good read nonetheless.

Drones, the Air Littoral, and the Looming Irrelevance of the U.S. Air Force - War on the Rocks

Today, the U.S. Air Force faces an almost-existential crisis. During the past several years, the service has been battered by the loss of its prestigious

warontherocks.com

 

[KevinB]

I just see a new role for the A-10 and other slower aircraft - with gun pods, that’s primary role is just loitering waiting to clobber drones.

 

[dimsum]

I just see a new role for the A-10 and other slower aircraft - with gun pods, that’s primary role is just loitering waiting to clobber drones.

I’m guessing that even the A-10 would be too fast for small UAS. It’d need to be something like a helicopter (if a crewed asset is the idea).

Maybe one with a huge net…

 

[KevinB]

Well you use the A-10 for the guy controlling the drone

Something like the old SkyRaider with some 40mm GMG’s with proximity fuzed rounds.

 

[Kirkhill]

I’m guessing that even the A-10 would be too fast for small UAS. It’d need to be something like a helicopter (if a crewed asset is the idea).

Maybe one with a huge net…

Counter your counter..

More, many more, smaller and cheaper and built faster.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Counter your counter..

More, many more, smaller and cheaper and built faster.

Each one tying up at least one operator to be useful.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well you use the A-10 for the guy controlling the drone

Something like the old SkyRaider with some 40mm GMG’s with proximity fuzed rounds.

A10 would be very good at taking out Shaed drones and similar. Set up "Box's" that they fly in well behind the lines. They are fed targeting data and then go in for the kill. Very similar to how German nightfighters worked.

 

[dimsum]

Each one tying up at least one operator to be useful.

I think that will be soon a thing of the past.

 

[dapaterson]

I think that will be soon a thing of the past.

Looking at drone light displays, it's clear that complex formations can be programmed well in advance. In a military context, with limited AI, that suggests a single operator can drive a flock that, in turn can engage targets from multiple approaches simultaneously.

 

[Kirkhill]

Each one tying up at least one operator to be useful.

No. Now they are training swarm operators.

 

[KevinB]

Looking at drone light displays, it's clear that complex formations can be programmed well in advance. In a military context, with limited AI, that suggests a single operator can drive a flock that, in turn can engage targets from multiple approaches simultaneously.

But you can also fire a lot of proximity fragmentation rounds into things like that. Or a BFMON (Big F*** Me Off Net)

 

[dapaterson]

But you can also fire a lot of proximity fragmentation rounds into things like that. Or a BFMON (Big F*** Me Off Net)

Envelopment from multiple directions with low cost drones / munitions can overwhelm such systems.

The electromagnetic spectrum can move a much better protection than kinetic responses.

 

[Kirkhill]

How many proximity rounds to defeat this?



A swarm of micro-Aldis Lamp repeaters




Most modern PLCs communicate by light. This is done to isolate the low voltage internal circuits from the higher voltage external circuits. When the calculations are complete at the end of every cycle the PLC sends and electrical impulse to one of the discrete outputs on the I/O module. That impulse activates an LED. The visible light from the LED is detected by an optical sensor which closes a circuit on the external high voltage side. Conversely, the PLC reads the status of the electrical inputs optically as well. This prevents electromagnetic interference. The picture below is of a dedicated optical isolator.

Optoisolators: What They Are and How They Work | Electrical4U

An optoisolator is an electronic component that transfers electrical signals between two isolated circuits by using light. Optoisolators prevent high voltages from affecting or destroying the system receiving the signal. They can also remove electrical noise from signals and enable communication...

www.electrical4u.com

So... Put an emitting LED and an Optical Sensor on every drone and broadcast in the visual spectrum using line of sight comms with multiple simultaneous repeater nodes in the sky concurrently.

If you can't hide, don't. Build in redundancy by the bucket load.

....

So what might a flying repeater node look like?

BuzzBee Nano Drone - The World's Smallest Quadcopter

The BuzzBee 6-Axis Quadcopter Drone from VR Insane is flown using the included remote control, and just happens to be the smallest nano drone in the world! Enjoy endless hours of indoor or in the garden fun with this charming little flying machine.

no.mobilefun.com

They were being retailed, with the controller, for 266 Norwegian Krone or about 25 USD.

Remove the controller from the equation.
Remove the retail margin from the equation
How much do you reckon the actual UAV cost to manufacture?

How many of those could be packed inside a 155mm shell? How about a 120mm mortar? Or an MLRS Rocket?
A tight swarm or a dispersed swarm?

No weapons on the UAV but simply Re-Transmitters to accompany the swarm of the larger killer drones. And so many of them they would be hard to kill and could be used like smoke, to obscure intent.

....

 

[KevinB]

How many proximity rounds to defeat this?



A swarm of micro-Aldis Lamp repeaters


View attachment 83732

Most modern PLCs communicate by light. This is done to isolate the low voltage internal circuits from the higher voltage external circuits. When the calculations are complete at the end of every cycle the PLC sends and electrical impulse to one of the discrete outputs on the I/O module. That impulse activates an LED. The visible light from the LED is detected by an optical sensor which closes a circuit on the external high voltage side. Conversely, the PLC reads the status of the electrical inputs optically as well. This prevents electromagnetic interference. The picture below is of a dedicated optical isolator.

View attachment 83733

Optoisolators: What They Are and How They Work | Electrical4U

An optoisolator is an electronic component that transfers electrical signals between two isolated circuits by using light. Optoisolators prevent high voltages from affecting or destroying the system receiving the signal. They can also remove electrical noise from signals and enable communication...

www.electrical4u.com

So... Put an emitting LED and an Optical Sensor on every drone and broadcast in the visual spectrum using line of sight comms with multiple simultaneous repeater nodes in the sky concurrently.

If you can't hide, don't. Build in redundancy by the bucket load.

....

So what might a flying repeater node look like?

View attachment 83734

BuzzBee Nano Drone - The World's Smallest Quadcopter

The BuzzBee 6-Axis Quadcopter Drone from VR Insane is flown using the included remote control, and just happens to be the smallest nano drone in the world! Enjoy endless hours of indoor or in the garden fun with this charming little flying machine.

no.mobilefun.com

They were being retailed, with the controller, for 266 Norwegian Krone or about 25 USD.

Remove the controller from the equation.
Remove the retail margin from the equation
How much do you reckon the actual UAV cost to manufacture?

How many of those could be packed inside a 155mm shell? How about a 120mm mortar? Or an MLRS Rocket?
A tight swarm or a dispersed swarm?

No weapons on the UAV but simply Re-Transmitters to accompany the swarm of the larger killer drones. And so many of them they would be hard to kill and could be used like smoke, to obscure intent.

....

If necessary I can fill the sky with lead

 

[Kirkhill]

Lots of Matthias Rust type drones penetrating 900 km into Russia.

Mathias Rust - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Russia's air defense net seems to have a problem with "low and slow". Coupled with a really interesting opening gambit by the Ukrainians. Pro-Ukrainian Russian feint towards the border in the Sumy - Kharkiv region. Raise a cloud of Russian helicopters to repel the incursion from Ukraine. Then launch a swarm of 80 Cessna 172 sized drones to follow the helicopters as they return to base.

 

[Kirkhill]

If anybody is going to win this war for Zelensky it is going to be Budanov.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Lots of Matthias Rust type drones penetrating 900 km into Russia.

Mathias Rust - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Russia's air defense net seems to have a problem with "low and slow". Coupled with a really interesting opening gambit by the Ukrainians. Pro-Ukrainian Russian feint towards the border in the Sumy - Kharkiv region. Raise a cloud of Russian helicopters to repel the incursion from Ukraine. Then launch a swarm of 80 Cessna 172 sized drones to follow the helicopters as they return to base.

It's a interesting use of a ground attack to elicit a aerial response to make it difficult for the enemy to target your drones without taking out their own assets.

 

[KevinB]

Russia's air defense net seems to have a problem with "anything in the air".

Fixed that for you


Sorry that should have been anything in the air that isn't a VKS Aircraft or a Commercial Plane.

 

[Kirkhill]

US Army successfully test new ALTIUS-700M suicide drone​

NEWSARMYVIDEO
ByDylan Malyasov

Mar 16, 2024

Modified date: Mar 16, 2024




Anduril Industries has announced that the ALTIUS-700M loitering munition recently underwent rigorous testing at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah, showcasing flawless system performance and precision strikes against various targets.

Colloquially called kamikaze drone or suicide drone, the ALTIUS series loitering munition, encompasses a range of missions from intelligence gathering to kinetic strikes. The 700M variant, boasting a payload capacity comparable to the AGM-114 Hellfire missile, delivers devastating blows to armored targets and infrastructure with its larger warhead and extended range of up to 100 miles.

Designed for expeditionary deployment across air, ground, or maritime platforms, the ALTIUS-700M combines industry-leading loitering time with advanced autonomy, enabling coordinated strikes and precise targeting without the need for laser designation. Its open hardware and software architecture allow for seamless integration with various payloads and mission software suites, providing operators with decisive control over mission execution.

US Army successfully test new ALTIUS-700M suicide drone

Anduril Industries has announced that the ALTIUS-700M loitering munition recently underwent rigorous testing at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah, showcasing flawless system performance and precision strikes against various targets. Colloquially called kamikaze drone or suicide drone, the ALTIUS...

defence-blog.com

This is the Kratos Valkyrie drone deploying an earlier generation of the Anduril Altius drone.

Anduril

Transforming US & allied military capabilities with advanced technology.

www.anduril.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Anduril also makes an interesting UUV, Dive-LD. The hull is printed.

The 3-ton Dive-LD is able to autonomously conduct missions for up to 10 days with an architecture that scales for multi-week missions.

The Dive-LD is capable of conducting missions along the seafloor at up to 6000 meters ocean depth.

The low-logistics, small-footprint Dive-LD can be pier-launched, towed to sea, or stowed, launched, and recovered from a variety of vessels of opportunity.

Extensive open interfaces, generous payload bays, and the use of additive manufacturing enable rapid integration of a variety of sensors and effectors for customized defense and commercial mission sets.