Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[dimsum]

147 as of December 2023.

General Officers and Flag Officers - Canada.ca

General and Flag Officers of the Canadian Armed Forces work closely with senior Defence Team executives to ensure Canada is strong at home, secure in North America, and engaged in the world.

www.canada.ca

@Quirky’s original post made me remember the “ADF GOFO” thread I started last fall and from that the 219 that the article quoted were just Reg F GOFOs. There were almost 330 Res F GOFOs in the ADF in 2022-2023 (different year than the article).

So…roughly 550 GOFOs in the Australian Defence Force, for a force of about 55k people.



Post in thread '“ADF so bloated with star-ranked officers that its combat effectiveness is at risk” - Research paper'
“ADF so bloated with star-ranked officers that its combat effectiveness is at risk” - Research paper

 

[dapaterson]

@Quirky’s original post made me remember the “ADF GOFO” thread I started last fall and from that the 219 that the article quoted were just Reg F GOFOs. There were almost 330 Res F GOFOs in the ADF in 2022-2023 (different year than the article).

So…roughly 550 GOFOs in the Australian Defence Force, for a force of about 55k people.

View attachment 83590

Post in thread '“ADF so bloated with star-ranked officers that its combat effectiveness is at risk” - Research paper'
“ADF so bloated with star-ranked officers that its combat effectiveness is at risk” - Research paper

For the ADF Res F - are they structured as Canada is - that is, is there an equivalent to the Supplementary Reserve rolled into those numbers?

 

[Kirkhill]

@Quirky’s original post made me remember the “ADF GOFO” thread I started last fall and from that the 219 that the article quoted were just Reg F GOFOs. There were almost 330 Res F GOFOs in the ADF in 2022-2023 (different year than the article).

So…roughly 550 GOFOs in the Australian Defence Force, for a force of about 55k people.

View attachment 83590

Post in thread '“ADF so bloated with star-ranked officers that its combat effectiveness is at risk” - Research paper'
“ADF so bloated with star-ranked officers that its combat effectiveness is at risk” - Research paper

So 58 regular Brigades in 22 Divisions under 5 Corps with an additional 101 Brigades in 30 Divisions under 2 Corps in reserve?

 

[dimsum]

For the ADF Res F - are they structured as Canada is - that is, is there an equivalent to the Supplementary Reserve rolled into those numbers?

No idea, sorry.

So 58 regular Brigades in 22 Divisions under 5 Corps with an additional 101 Brigades in 30 Divisions under 2 Corps in reserve?

I think I mentioned it in the other thread in the fall, but let’s just say their “head of air shows” is a 1*.

 

[Good2Golf]

Wow

 

[Quirky]

BLUF, CAF is bleeding to death.

State of Canadian Armed Forces' combat readiness growing worse, government report warns​

https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.7135390

 

[ueo]

Like anything, at least we're being talked about.

I think with all the bad press, Canadians are realizing that the CAF's issues are not strictly related to "post-COVID recovery" or "harmful sexual misconduct/culture change." We have gradually seen our Armed Forces gutted or rust out for the past 30-40 years and its come to roost.

It may have been seen as being hawkish 5 or 10 years ago to suggest we needed a stronger defence and foreign policy in Canada. Post 22 Feb 2022... national Pharmacare, geography, and previous International Rules Based alliances aren't protecting us from Russian, Chinese, or Iranian threats abroad or domestically.

Canadians now are horrified to think what would happen if Kherson was Calgary, Odessa was Halifax, or Bakhmut was Smalltown Anywhere, Canada. The realization that we have zero ability to provide continental defence if the U.S. walked away from NORAD is a terrifying threat now coming to consciousness in Canadian society. Its 20 years too late, but its a start and hopefully becomes a platform issue for Election 2025.

Somehow I don't think so.

 

[ArmyRick]

BLUF, CAF is bleeding to death.

State of Canadian Armed Forces' combat readiness growing worse, government report warns​

https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.7135390

No surprise.

Canada going into an operation in 2024
1. Canada receives request from ally for assistance;
2. Canada does a gender inclusivity assessment of which troops to send;
3. Canada consults indigenous groups for their thoughts;
4. Canada appoints a bureaucrat to assess the plausibility of said operation;
5. Canada upgrades assessment to include LGBTQFGHARQ+ (Rainbow);
6. Said appointed bureaucrat hires out Liberal friendly consultants for a low fee of $15 million (Can) to assess how to execute mission without compromising inclusivity;
7. A further $10 million (Can) awarded to another Liberal friendly consultant to assess climate impact of operation;
8. Liberals introduce additional carbon tax bill to fund said operation because climate impact said it would be beneit;
9. An additional $55 million is needed by original consultant to further understand societal impact of operation;
10. CDS is given a heads up to be prepared to send forces;
11. New MND is appointed, further delays to allow new MND be brought up to speed;
12. Re-evaluation of mission after CDS says can not support the mission; and
13. Blame Harper/Conservatives for the failure of it all.

 

[MilEME09]

Chickens......meet roost

 

[Kirkhill]

BLUF, CAF is bleeding to death.

State of Canadian Armed Forces' combat readiness growing worse, government report warns​

https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.7135390

I'm not one to cut the government, or the system, much slack but...

Tonight, at 50% readiness, Canada could only generate a force of:

42 tanks,
18 M777s
300 LAVs
250 TAPVs
1500 Logistics Vehicles (various)

40 Griffons
8 Chinooks

30 F18s

6 Frigates
2 Subs
6 MCDVs
2 AOPS..

and some other stuff.

It is not nothing. A lot of imbalances there and we should be doing more, and more bodies, ammo and spares are needed...... all stipulated.

But 50% readiness in a peacetime establishment still yields a reasonable Day 1.

The bigger question would be how long will it take to get the other 50% into the field and then the next 50% after that.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'm not one to cut the government, or the system, much slack but...

Tonight, at 50% readiness, Canada could only generate a force of:

42 tanks,
18 M777s
300 LAVs
250 TAPVs
1500 Logistics Vehicles (various)

40 Griffons
8 Chinooks

30 F18s

6 Frigates
2 Subs
6 MCDVs
2 AOPS..

and some other stuff.

It is not nothing. A lot of imbalances there and we should be doing more, and more bodies, ammo and spares are needed...... all stipulated.

But 50% readiness in a peacetime establishment still yields a reasonable Day 1.

The bigger question would be how long will it take to get the other 50% into the field and then the next 50% after that.

What's the average availability/VOR rate for those machines I wonder?

 

[Rifleman62]

The Canadian Armed Forces is facing a CRISIS | Ret. Lt.-Gen. Michel Maisonneuve -6 Mar 24​

 

[YZT580]

No surprise.

Canada going into an operation in 2024
1. Canada receives request from ally for assistance;
2. Canada does a gender inclusivity assessment of which troops to send;
3. Canada consults indigenous groups for their thoughts;
4. Canada appoints a bureaucrat to assess the plausibility of said operation;
5. Canada upgrades assessment to include LGBTQFGHARQ+ (Rainbow);
6. Said appointed bureaucrat hires out Liberal friendly consultants for a low fee of $15 million (Can) to assess how to execute mission without compromising inclusivity;
7. A further $10 million (Can) awarded to another Liberal friendly consultant to assess climate impact of operation;
8. Liberals introduce additional carbon tax bill to fund said operation because climate impact said it would be beneit;
9. An additional $55 million is needed by original consultant to further understand societal impact of operation;
10. CDS is given a heads up to be prepared to send forces;
11. New MND is appointed, further delays to allow new MND be brought up to speed;
12. Re-evaluation of mission after CDS says can not support the mission; and
13. Blame Harper/Conservatives for the failure of it all.

need a pathetic emoj

 

[MilEME09]

industry asks for $400 million investment to start a new 155mm production line in Canada, government answer? here is $4.4 million. seriously, if there is anything that says we are not actually taking defense seriously, it is this.

Minister Blair announces investments in Canadian innovation and launches Artificial Intelligence Strategy at Ottawa Conference on Security and Defence - Canada.ca

The Honourable Bill Blair, Minister of National Defence, delivered a keynote speech at the 92nd annual Ottawa Conference on Security and Defence and discussed Canada’s national defence priorities.

www.canada.ca

 

[daftandbarmy]

industry asks for $400 million investment to start a new 155mm production line in Canada, government answer? here is $4.4 million. seriously, if there is anything that says we are not actually taking defense seriously, it is this.

Minister Blair announces investments in Canadian innovation and launches Artificial Intelligence Strategy at Ottawa Conference on Security and Defence - Canada.ca

The Honourable Bill Blair, Minister of National Defence, delivered a keynote speech at the 92nd annual Ottawa Conference on Security and Defence and discussed Canada’s national defence priorities.

www.canada.ca

An even bigger disincentive for business to start anything:

High Interest Rates to Hobble Construction through H1 - CanaData

A higher policy-setting interest rate, which the Bank of Canada has raised to a 22-year peak in order to rein in inflation, caused the volume of investment in building construction to contract by -4.8% in 2022 and by a further -13.0% year-to-date in 2023.

canada.constructconnect.com

 

[KevinB]

I'm not one to cut the government, or the system, much slack but...

Tonight, at 50% readiness, Canada could only generate a force of:

42 tanks,
18 M777s
300 LAVs
250 TAPVs
1500 Logistics Vehicles (various)

40 Griffons
8 Chinooks

30 F18s

6 Frigates
2 Subs
6 MCDVs
2 AOPS..

and some other stuff.

It is not nothing. A lot of imbalances there and we should be doing more, and more bodies, ammo and spares are needed...... all stipulated.

It’s nothing for a G7 country.

But 50% readiness in a peacetime establishment still yields a reasonable Day 1.

But…

The bigger question would be how long will it take to get the other 50% into the field and then the next 50% after that.

Or even support them once in the field.

I don’t see 50% readiness for several months being possible for Canada.
Which personally to me screams out that the Reg Force needs a massive realignment.

If you are under 80% readiness with your Regular Force, I would say you are getting terrible ROI.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

It’s nothing for a G7 country.

I don’t see 50% readiness for several months being possible for Canada.
Which personally to me screams out that the Reg Force needs a massive realignment.

If you are under 80% readiness with your Regular Force, I would say you are getting terrible ROI.

Its hard to get an ROI when you have no desired outputs for it. The CAF exists (at least in the minds of politicians) as a reluctant expense, like car insurance.

If we exist solely as a "Break Glass in Case of War" solution, or at best as a very small token of foreign policy capital to be bandied about when our allies are getting annoyed; its hard to maintain or develop a competent and capable force.

Its not troops, or eqpt, or money, or... it is a lack of political will and vision on our government that sees the CAF starved for capability.

If you leave your herding dog out in the cold, emaciated, and in rough shape; you only have yourself to blame when the coyotes have their pick of lambs.

 

[Quirky]

If we exist solely as a "Break Glass in Case of War" solution, or at best as a very small token of foreign policy capital to be bandied about when our allies are getting annoyed; its hard to maintain or develop a competent and capable force.

One day they'll break the glass and they'll find the case empty.

 

[Good2Golf]

Some additional take on MNd’s statement by MSM.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-must-spend-much-more-military-defense-minister-says-2024-03-07/

 

[CountDC]

I

6 Frigates
2 Subs
6 MCDVs
2 AOPS..

Can we really provide that? See a lot of talk about crew jumping from ship to ship in order for them to sail. Almost seems like we would be lucky to put 3 frigates out at once while manning I mean crewing the rest.

We have 2 subs? (yes sarcasm)