Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Add a PT test at the interview or medical and we could do the same. We just have to want to.

There is a PT test for this job as well, you do it once you start training, like they do in the CAF.

The CAF is just institutionally incompetent. It somehow manages to keep getting worse every year.

Diversity is only one part of it and yes it should be addressed. It’s only one part of the issues that the CAF faces.

What we have to do though is put as much effort into all of those issues that we seem to be doing for diversity.

What they need to do is allow anyone who is capable of joining and fulfilling the requirements of their occupation and universality of service, the opportunity to do so.

The simple fact is, Military formations fight as units and not as individuals and the CAF approach of hyper-individualism and you can be whoever you wanna be is..... counter-intuitive to forming cohesive fighting units.

Ironically, there are already formations that have been doing this "integrating diverse groups of people" thing for a couple of hundred years, are an elite fighting formation and have a very successful model:

Code #2 of the Legion Code of Honour:

2 – Each legionnaire is your brother in arms, whatever his nationality, his race or his religion might be. You will demonstrate this by the strict solidarity which must always links members of the same family.

Code of Honour

About principles Once there was a man. A man and his life’s journey. A life’s journey never told, full with pain and with unshared memories. Leaving all behind? Thoughts. Hesitations. One more drin…

thefrenchforeignlegionfirsthand.wordpress.com

This model could be further adapted to conform to meet our requirements. But individualism should absolutely play no part in it and it's fundamentally contrary to how you build soldiers, which Militaries know how to do because they have been doing it for thousands of years.

 

[FSTO]

For some reason people in positions of influence at the GoC think there is this horde of young white farmers, fishermen, miners, and foresters out there clogging up the recruiting system and not allowing a more diverse range of people to join the CAF. Have they not read their own Statistics Canada reports? Those folks are long gone and the problem is the byzantine CAF recruiting system. But lets keep up the boogy man!

 

[daftandbarmy]

For some reason people in positions of influence at the GoC think there is this horde of young white farmers, fishermen, miners, and foresters out there clogging up the recruiting system and not allowing a more diverse range of people to join the CAF. Have they not read their own Statistics Canada reports? Those folks are long gone and the problem is the byzantine CAF recruiting system. But lets keep up the boogy man!

You mean the system that still relies heavily on visiting high schools and malls, phone calls, and putting up warry posters like I used to do in 1979?

The amazing thing I found, when I had the Recruting cell in my Coy, was that the people who were much, much younger than me could not be convinced to do anything else, mainly because the Bde Recruiting Staff were driving the whole, aberrant, 'That 70s show' behaviour.

 

[Remius]

There is a PT test for this job as well, you do it once you start training, like they do in the CAF.

The CAF is just institutionally incompetent. It somehow manages to keep getting worse every year.



What they need to do is allow anyone who is capable of joining and fulfilling the requirements of their occupation and universality of service, the opportunity to do so.

The simple fact is, Military formations fight as units and not as individuals and the CAF approach of hyper-individualism and you can be whoever you wanna be is..... counter-intuitive to forming cohesive fighting units.

Ironically, there are already formations that have been doing this "integrating diverse groups of people" thing for a couple of hundred years, are an elite fighting formation and have a very successful model:

Code #2 of the Legion Code of Honour:

2 – Each legionnaire is your brother in arms, whatever his nationality, his race or his religion might be. You will demonstrate this by the strict solidarity which must always links members of the same family.

Code of Honour

About principles Once there was a man. A man and his life’s journey. A life’s journey never told, full with pain and with unshared memories. Leaving all behind? Thoughts. Hesitations. One more drin…

thefrenchforeignlegionfirsthand.wordpress.com

This model could be further adapted to conform to meet our requirements. But individualism should absolutely play no part in it and it's fundamentally contrary to how you build soldiers, which Militaries know how to do because they have been doing it for thousands of years.

The French Foreign legion is bad example for a lot of reasons and that model would be difficult to emulate here. Although some parts of it could be adapted but here are some of the key differences:

1- there are no minimum educational standards. (Not sure the CAF is ready to do that)
2- members don’t swear allegiances to France only the unit. (Not sure how that would go over in our system)
3- three years of service gets you citizenship (this should be adopted here)

And they have a massive access to their target groups in very close proximity.

And remember the Legion has a long history of being a unit full of non citizens for reasons that are well known.

 

[Quirky]

Inclusive dress regs can help as we’ve seen but that only scratches the surface.

Inclusive dress regs are utter nonsense and have nothing to do with retention or recruiting. People don't join or stay in the military because the dress code is gender specific. I mean cool, inclusive dress regs, wooooo. Thanks guys. CAF leadership talking without actually saying anything, again.

 

[FSTO]

For some reason people in positions of influence at the GoC think there is this horde of young white farmers, fishermen, miners, and foresters out there clogging up the recruiting system and not allowing a more diverse range of people to join the CAF. Have they not read their own Statistics Canada reports? Those folks are long gone and the problem is the byzantine CAF recruiting system. But lets keep up the boogy man!

For context, way back in the dark ages I grew up during the start of the great rural depopulation movement. I missed walking the mile and half to the one room school house by a year (they closed most of them in 1966). When I got on the bus that headed to town, it was a big bus and packed with kids and there was over 30 buses heading into town and this was repeated in every town in the area. 12 years later, there was about 10 buses, they were small and there was barely any kids in them.

 

[Furniture]

Inclusive dress regs are utter nonsense and have nothing to do with retention or recruiting. People don't join or stay in the military because the dress code is gender specific. I mean cool, inclusive dress regs, wooooo. Thanks guys. CAF leadership talking without actually saying anything, again.

Dress is a dissatisfier, and it costs us nothing to fix it. I doubt people are releasing entirely because of dress issues, but add dress issues on top of everything else, and it might be the straw that broke the camel's back.

That it has taken so long to finally look into fixing 1950s era dress regs is pretty sad.

 

[WLSC]

So we need more diversity to fix retention….what planet do they live in? Let’s completely ignore failing equipment, no equipment, shit posting locations be it location or massive increase in COL, toxic leadership, etc, etc. The koolaid is strong with this one.

No, we need to get rid of toxic leadership and the rest will/should fall in. Diversity is not the driver, being a relevant employer is. From what I understand, that CPCC goal. Notting new, just forgotten…

 

[Remius]

Inclusive dress regs are utter nonsense and have nothing to do with retention or recruiting. People don't join or stay in the military because the dress code is gender specific. I mean cool, inclusive dress regs, wooooo. Thanks guys. CAF leadership talking without actually saying anything, again.

i said it only scratches the surface. But it isn’t utter none sense.

A good chunk of the younger women I’ve served with have stated flat out that being able to wear their hair with less restrictive rules was a big deal for them. I’m not saying it keeps them in or out. But that change was appreciated.

And plenty of people when I was in recruiting asked about hair. Men and women.

And questions about turbans comes up.

Again, it’s part of the whole slew of issues. Not the be all end all. Deaths by a thousand cuts and all that. If the institution dismisses it it won’t get any better.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Dress is a dissatisfier, and it costs us nothing to fix it. I doubt people are releasing entirely because of dress issues, but add dress issues on top of everything else, and it might be the straw that broke the camel's back.

That it has taken so long to finally look into fixing 1950s era dress regs is pretty sad.

I circulate in a crowd of people who have high schoolers that are all thinking about what their kids are going to do once they graduate.

I'm just about the only person they know who has any military experience, anywhere.

Believe me, the dress regs are the last thing they think about when helping their kids make important life choices.

 

[Furniture]

I circulate in a crowd of people who have high schoolers that are all thinking about what their kids are going to do once they graduate.

I'm just about the only person they know who has any military experience, anywhere.

Believe me, the dress regs are the last thing they think about when helping their kids make important life choices.

I'm aware it's not a high priority for people considering joining, but as I said, it is a dissatisfier for those already in. Retention is as big an issue as recruiting in some occupations.

Fixing dress regs costs us very little, and is something we should have been doing 20+ years ago.

 

[Quirky]

I'm aware it's not a high priority for people considering joining, but as I said, it is a dissatisfier for those already in. Retention is as big an issue as recruiting in some occupations.

Fixing dress regs costs us very little, and is something we should have been doing 20+ years ago.

And it's still taking months for a "final signature". Just implement the damn regulations. Now. CAF leadership isn't beholden to any timelines, but god forbid if this no-fail tasking doesn't meet the deadline. Hypocrites.

 

[QV]

What they need to do is allow anyone who is capable of joining and fulfilling the requirements of their occupation and universality of service, the opportunity to do so.

The simple fact is, Military formations fight as units and not as individuals and the CAF approach of hyper-individualism and you can be whoever you wanna be is..... counter-intuitive to forming cohesive fighting units.

But individualism should absolutely play no part in it and it's fundamentally contrary to how you build soldiers, which Militaries know how to do because they have been doing it for thousands of years.

It's almost like some people are purposely wrecking western militaries. Or are useful idiots at any rate...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have to say the skirt and bowler hat from the 80's were designed by someone that hated women. Actually having a dress uniform designed for a female body and to make them look sharp is what's need. Gender neutral is your Combats and Coveralls. Maybe have women trial and design what they want using input from across the CF and well known women fashion designers.

 

[QV]

If there are consultations for one gender, then there should be consultations for all the genders. I can't recall what we're up to now for that but pretty sure it's officially more than two.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I have to say the skirt and bowler hat from the 80's were designed by someone that hated women. Actually having a dress uniform designed for a female body and to make them look sharp is what's need. Gender neutral is your Combats and Coveralls. Maybe have women trial and design what they want using input from across the CF and well known women fashion designers.

Dude, we're a military that has publicly acknowledged that we can't even make a pair of boots that don't injure soldiers...

 

[Brad Sallows]

Maybe just dress like ancient Romans.

 

[ueo]

I'm aware it's not a high priority for people considering joining, but as I said, it is a dissatisfier for those already in. Retention is as big an issue as recruiting in some occupations.

Fixing dress regs costs us very little, and is something we should have been doing 20+ years ago.

We've fixed, refixed and rerefixed Dress stds since the late 60"s. Each mod cost a pretty penny I'd wager and none have had any great influence on recruiting or retention. They did allow a couple generations of CWO/RSM's a basis on which to make life difficult. Not an issue in my mind.

 

[dimsum]

Maybe have women trial and design what they want using input from across the CF and well known women fashion designers.

It doesn't even have to be female fashion designers. Alfred Sung isn't a woman, but is known for women's clothing.

I'm not young - nor a woman - so take it for what it's worth, but I'd skew the sample size to "women in the CAF who aren't retiring in the next 5 years".

 

[Blackadder1916]

Maybe have women trial and design what they want using input from across the CF and well known women fashion designers.

In-house service committee designed and trialed uniform with input from serving members.