Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[KevinB]

If that was the case, I’d be driving a Range Rover Sport. At some point, we need to procuring something that we’ll have in quantity enough to train and employ. If we can only buy a handful and never use it, it’s no good.

My point is even with every solider, airperson, and sailor kitted out with the best equipment, and a robust war stock - the CAF needs are not really that big due to its size.

When you only have 140 ish (IIRC that was the original Hornet buy) Fighters that need to be all and do all, that budget shouldn’t be a deal breaker for Canada a G-7 Nation, neither should the ships, subs and everything else needed for a ~130k pers Armed Force to be absolutely cutting edge with ample stocks of material to support training and combat deployments.

 

[Furniture]

The CAF isn’t big enough you can afford to not buy the best.

This goes back to what I said before though, we will look at the best, decide it costs too much, and end up with nothing... Like we currently stand with GBAD, modern anti-armour weapons, and many other capabilities that a rich country should have.

Having Ford Ranger Tremors painted green, kitted out with Starstreak launchers would put the CAF 100% ahead of where it is now with GBAD, even if it's a less than ideal solution.

Having NLAW, Spike SR, etc., in the hands of Pte Bloggins, is better than what we have now, even if the Javelin is a better system overall.

My point isn't that we should buy cheap crap, it's that we should shoot for many "mid-tier" systems rather than a few really high end ones.

If the the best is affordable enough for us to buy lots, buy the best. If the best means we end up with 20 systems parked in Gagetown because we can't "risk" damaging them, they are useless.

 

[TacticalTea]

My point is even with every solider, airperson, and sailor kitted out with the best equipment, and a robust war stock - the CAF needs are not really that big due to its size.

When you only have 140 ish (IIRC that was the original Hornet buy) Fighters that need to be all and do all, that budget shouldn’t be a deal breaker for Canada a G-7 Nation, neither should the ships, subs and everything else needed for a ~130k pers Armed Force to be absolutely cutting edge with ample stocks of material to support training and combat deployments.

If we respected our 2% commitment, true.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

This goes back to what I said before though, we will look at the best, decide it costs too much, and end up with nothing... Like we currently stand with GBAD, modern anti-armour weapons, and many other capabilities that a rich country should have.

Having Ford Ranger Tremors painted green, kitted out with Starstreak launchers would put the CAF 100% ahead of where it is now with GBAD, even if it's a less than ideal solution.

Having NLAW, Spike SR, etc., in the hands of Pte Bloggins, is better than what we have now, even if the Javelin is a better system overall.

My point isn't that we should buy cheap crap, it's that we should shoot for many "mid-tier" systems rather than a few really high end ones.

If the the best is affordable enough for us to buy lots, buy the best. If the best means we end up with 20 systems parked in Gagetown because we can't "risk" damaging them, they are useless.

1 on the Range is better than 20 on order, which is better than 300 in depot.

All are better than Zero.

 

[GK .Dundas]

This goes back to what I said before though, we will look at the best, decide it costs too much, and end up with nothing... Like we currently stand with GBAD, modern anti-armour weapons, and many other capabilities that a rich country should have.

Having Ford Ranger Tremors painted green, kitted out with Starstreak launchers would put the CAF 100% ahead of where it is now with GBAD, even if it's a less than ideal solution.

Having NLAW, Spike SR, etc., in the hands of Pte Bloggins, is better than what we have now, even if the Javelin is a better system overall.

My point isn't that we should buy cheap crap, it's that we should shoot for many "mid-tier" systems rather than a few really high end ones.

If the the best is affordable enough for us to buy lots, buy the best. If the best means we end up with 20 systems parked in Gagetown because we can't "risk" damaging them, they are useless.

A couple of years ago I mentioned on here a cheap and.fairly effective way of getting an air defence capability purchase surplus German RL 202s and mount them on the back of milvardos.. Sprinkle with hand held stingers and you have decent.self propelled air defence system.

 

[FJAG]

I’m not sure if that 125,000 figure included the reserves or not. Also, training wasn’t as specialized as it is today, etc. etc. etc. Still…

The 125,000 was Reg F only. The Militia fluctuated around that time from around 48,500 in 1964 to some 13,000 in 1971.

 

[KevinB]

This goes back to what I said before though, we will look at the best, decide it costs too much, and end up with nothing... Like we currently stand with GBAD, modern anti-armour weapons, and many other capabilities that a rich country should have.

Having Ford Ranger Tremors painted green, kitted out with Starstreak launchers would put the CAF 100% ahead of where it is now with GBAD, even if it's a less than ideal solution.

Having NLAW, Spike SR, etc., in the hands of Pte Bloggins, is better than what we have now, even if the Javelin is a better system overall.

My point isn't that we should buy cheap crap, it's that we should shoot for many "mid-tier" systems rather than a few really high end ones.

If the the best is affordable enough for us to buy lots, buy the best. If the best means we end up with 20 systems parked in Gagetown because we can't "risk" damaging them, they are useless.

The CAD underspent the allocated budget in the last two years that could have acquired 200 CV-90, 100 M109A6, and 80 MSHORAD systems.
There is absolutely no reason even at the current decrepit funding that it can't get enough top end systems to do everything with.

I'd suggest that a lot of positions inside the Nebulous HDHQ Directorates could be better done by placing LO and Tech WO positions down at our various PM shops - getting in on the ground with US Mil systems - I think you could save billions in that manner fairly easily.

 

[TacticalTea]

The CAD underspent the allocated budget in the last two years that could have acquired 200 CV-90, 100 M109A6, and 80 MSHORAD systems.
There is absolutely no reason even at the current decrepit funding that it can't get enough top end systems to do everything with.

I'd suggest that a lot of positions inside the Nebulous HDHQ Directorates could be better done by placing LO and Tech WO positions down at our various PM shops - getting in on the ground with US Mil systems - I think you could save billions in that manner fairly easily.

That's what I've been thinking about as well.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Fingers crossed....

FIRST READING: Buckle up for a Canadian defence spending splurge​

Defence Minister Anita Anand said this week that she will be tabling “aggressive” options to significantly boost Canada’s rate of defence spending once the cabinet starts planning its spring budget. Depending on how it goes, this could spell the biggest surge in Canadian defence spending in more than 50 years.​

Canada, of course, has one of the most lacklustre defence spending records in NATO. While members of the alliance are expected to spend 2 per cent of national GDP on defence, Canada only spends about 1.4 per cent. Speaking to CBC this week, Anand said she was drafting proposals under which Canada could hit or exceed the 2 per cent baseline. That would be roughly an extra $10 billion to spend on the military each year.

Pessimists, however, will argue that the Canadian Armed Forces’ problem is not merely one of spending, given that it can’t seem to spend the money it already has. Last year, for instance, the Department of Defence failed to spend $1.2 billion of its allocated budget, continuing a trend of lapsed defence spending that has been occurring quite regularly since the government of Stephen Harper.

The Canadian military also has a penchant to make procurement far more expensive and painful than it needs to be. We’ve brought this up before, but when the British Army replaced its standard-issue pistols in 2010, it took them three years and $14.5 million. For the Canadian Army, replacing the exact same pistol has required 15 years and more than $100 million.

We also happen to have one of the most top-heavy militaries in NATO. Despite an ever-shrinking pool of enlisted personnel, Canada retains about as many generals and admirals as at the height of the Cold War.

After the Russian Federation asked the U.N. Security Council for a resolution backing humanitarian relief for Ukraine, the Canadian delegation took the liberty of “editing” their request and posting it online. PHOTO BY CANADIAN MISSION TO THE UNITED NATIONS

WAR IN UKRAINE​

In late February, two RCAF C-130s were sent to Europe to help ferry Canadian guns, bullets and rocket launchers into an undisclosed NATO airfield in Eastern Europe, where the weapons are then moved into Ukraine. But the National Post’s John Ivison felt he should remind us that this is a recent development for the Canadian government, who has thus far made it a habit to strenuously ignore Ukrainian requests for lethal aid. Virtually until the moment that Russian warplanes began to bomb Kyiv, Canada refused to send guns to Ukraine, demanded that its aid not be used for weapons and even gave the Ukrainians a hard time when they tried to buy Canadian-made arms with their own money.

FIRST READING: Buckle up for a Canadian defence spending splurge

Brian Mulroney urges Tories to stop "destroying" each other

nationalpost.com

 

[daftandbarmy]

NLAW seems to fit better around the Carl G niche. M72 is not much good against modern tanks, but it is really cheap and can really mess up bunkers/defensive positions and, I suppose, older AFVs.

Javelin is a medium to long range (depending on version, if you believe wikipedia) anti-armour system that can destroy just about any armoured vehicle in the world.

And then - as you know - there are attack helicopters, which were pretty much invented to take on Soviet armoured formations on the central front over 50 years ago, of which we have a total of Zero. This situation is unique amongst other NATO countries, I think.

Maybe Anita will get us some Apache, in the upcoming defence spend, and bring us up to 1970 levels of readiness in this regard

 

[KevinB]

And then - as you know - there are attack helicopters, which were pretty much invented to take on Soviet armoured formations on the central front over 50 years ago, of which we have a total of Zero. This situation is unique amongst other NATO countries, I think.

Maybe Anita will get us some Apache, in the upcoming defence spend, and bring us up to 1970 levels of readiness in this regard

Sorry Bell doesn't build those - and Bell Miracle doesn't build Cobras or UH-1Y Venom either, if they built 1Y's and AH-1Z's it would be a worthwhile defense industry...

 

[Remius]

Sorry Bell doesn't build those - and Bell Miracle doesn't build Cobras or UH-1Y Venom either, if they built 1Y's and AH-1Z's it would be a worthwhile defense industry...

Airwolf. I want Airwolf.

 

[dimsum]

Airwolf. I want Airwolf.

This is the best I can give you:

 

[GK .Dundas]

This is the best I can give you:

View attachment 69570

Failing airwolf would you settle for I guess it's Boeing that builds them the AH 6 I.

 

[FJAG]

This is the best I can give you:

View attachment 69570

Your best is not good enough.

My guess is that any increase in spending will end up buying us more GOFOs and cubicle warmers in Ottawa.

 

[BirdGunner96]

The CAD underspent the allocated budget in the last two years that could have acquired 200 CV-90, 100 M109A6, and 80 MSHORAD systems.
There is absolutely no reason even at the current decrepit funding that it can't get enough top end systems to do everything with.

I'd suggest that a lot of positions inside the Nebulous HDHQ Directorates could be better done by placing LO and Tech WO positions down at our various PM shops - getting in on the ground with US Mil systems - I think you could save billions in that manner fairly easily.

As the name states, I am a recently retired Air Defender ( 6 months free). It has been like pushing a wet rope up a hill for the past 12 years, or if you like, pounding you head against wall! Have the white hat, was the first Canadian on the year long AD GCC course in the UK, went from zero to hero on Rapier FSC , HVM StarStreak LML+ Stormer platform. As well qualified Javelin S-15, 35mm Gun/Skyguard and ADATS. It is so unfortunate that Putin's megalomania has initiated this conversation, there have been pers in the CF advocating very hard for some form of AD. Unfortunately, as we stated 12 years ago, keep it a separate trade " Black beret Strat, Blue beret Air Force or even Navy" , as long it as far away from the Royal Regiment of Artillery as possible, cross training/ streaming should never had been an option. The only accomplishment was to produce more Officer / MWO (if you speak french positions). Take some of the numerous Reserve Arty Units (LG 1, C2), equip them with BV206, quads and a MANPAD system. Sry, rant over.

 

[daftandbarmy]

As the name states, I am a recently retired Air Defender ( 6 months free). It has been like pushing a wet rope up a hill for the past 12 years, or if you like, pounding you head against wall! Have the white hat, was the first Canadian on the year long AD GCC course in the UK, went from zero to hero on Rapier FSC , HVM StarStreak LML+ Stormer platform. As well qualified Javelin S-15, 35mm Gun/Skyguard and ADATS. It is so unfortunate that Putin's megalomania has initiated this conversation, there have been pers in the CF advocating very hard for some form of AD. Unfortunately, as we stated 12 years ago, keep it a separate trade " Black beret Strat, Blue beret Air Force or even Navy" , as long it as far away from the Royal Regiment of Artillery as possible, cross training/ streaming should never had been an option. The only accomplishment was to produce more Officer / MWO (if you speak french positions). Take some of the numerous Reserve Arty Units (LG 1, C2), equip them with BV206, quads and a MANPAD system. Sry, rant over.

What a sh*t show. Thank you for trying all those years!

It seems that Canadian GBAD be like:

 

[SeaKingTacco]

As the name states, I am a recently retired Air Defender ( 6 months free). It has been like pushing a wet rope up a hill for the past 12 years, or if you like, pounding you head against wall! Have the white hat, was the first Canadian on the year long AD GCC course in the UK, went from zero to hero on Rapier FSC , HVM StarStreak LML+ Stormer platform. As well qualified Javelin S-15, 35mm Gun/Skyguard and ADATS. It is so unfortunate that Putin's megalomania has initiated this conversation, there have been pers in the CF advocating very hard for some form of AD. Unfortunately, as we stated 12 years ago, keep it a separate trade " Black beret Strat, Blue beret Air Force or even Navy" , as long it as far away from the Royal Regiment of Artillery as possible, cross training/ streaming should never had been an option. The only accomplishment was to produce more Officer / MWO (if you speak french positions). Take some of the numerous Reserve Arty Units (LG 1, C2), equip them with BV206, quads and a MANPAD system. Sry, rant over.

We have probably crossed paths. AD IG course graduate, 1997…

 

[dimsum]

Unfortunately, as we stated 12 years ago, keep it a separate trade " Black beret Strat, Blue beret Air Force or even Navy" , as long it as far away from the Royal Regiment of Artillery as possible, cross training/ streaming should never had been an option.

What trade do you think it should have been a part of? Or did you mean it should have been its own trade?

 

[BirdGunner96]

95% of NCO's told everyone that could hear that it was a stupid idea, maybe 5 officers had the balls to stand up. They were soon ostracized.